Jukendo / Tankendo - Bayonet Fighting

[Sojobo]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I was lucky enough to be invited to take part in a Jukendo seminar.

I enjoyed being an absolute beginner again, and it was great fun - trying to poke holes in your training partner!

There seems to be very few dojo (outside of Japan) that practice this.

Anyone have any experience of it, and what did you think?

 

[jobo]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I was lucky enough to be invited to take part in a Jukendo seminar.

I enjoyed being an absolute beginner again, and it was great fun - trying to poke holes in your training partner!

There seems to be very few dojo (outside of Japan) that practice this.

Anyone have any experience of it, and what did you think?

I suspect that its one of those interesting past times, that struggles to find a real world use, like juggling and stamp collecting

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I suspect that its one of those interesting past times, that struggles to find a real world use, like juggling and stamp collecting

The same could be said of a lot of traditional weapons training. A couple of weeks back I was practicing spear thrusts in formation, something that has no real practical use in today's world.

To the OP, we're you doing this in formation or as a single entity?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I suspect that its one of those interesting past times, that struggles to find a real world use, like juggling and stamp collecting

Does that really contribute to the conversation?

 

[jobo]

Does that really contribute to the conversation?

its just a bit of amusement on my part as to the things people pick for hobbies,

looking Down list of possible hobbies
woodwork
rug making
gardening
model making
knitting
bayonets fighting

that the one for me

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The most famous bayonet charge in recent memory came from the British in 2004.

Here is a short write up:
A Bayonet Charge Saved A Whole Lot Of Lives During The Iraq War

Bayonet training also has cross training with spear work, shovel, long stick, etc. It is definitely not useless in a modern world and could give you the right advantages in certain situations.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Here is another story on a 2012 bayonet charge:
Soldier who led Afghanistan bayonet charge into hail of bullets honoured

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I was lucky enough to be invited to take part in a Jukendo seminar.

I enjoyed being an absolute beginner again, and it was great fun - trying to poke holes in your training partner!

There seems to be very few dojo (outside of Japan) that practice this.

Anyone have any experience of it, and what did you think?

I trained with a bayonet to a very small extent as a US Marine. Never had the occasion to use one for much more than opening cans of c-rations, but I did get stabbed with one once.

I have lots of hobbies, some of which cause people to shake their heads and wonder what's going on inside mine. I am restoring my old motorcycle, my old truck, and I repair, restore, and rebuild old audio equipment. I design and build vacuum tube amplifiers, which I then usually take apart again. Fortunately, it's no one's business if my hobbies have any practical application or not. I do them because I like them; I need no other justification. I hope you enjoy your training, best of luck with it!

 

[pgsmith]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I was lucky enough to be invited to take part in a Jukendo seminar.

I enjoyed being an absolute beginner again, and it was great fun - trying to poke holes in your training partner!

There seems to be very few dojo (outside of Japan) that practice this.

Anyone have any experience of it, and what did you think?

I've seen demonstrations, but have never had the chance to try it. I don't know anywhere outside of Japan that teaches it though. It just doesn't have the cachet of the sword arts, and so it hasn't spread the way the sword has.

 

[Jenna]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I was lucky enough to be invited to take part in a Jukendo seminar.

I enjoyed being an absolute beginner again, and it was great fun - trying to poke holes in your training partner!

There seems to be very few dojo (outside of Japan) that practice this.

Anyone have any experience of it, and what did you think?

How did that compare to your other art(s) in practice? thank you

 

[Sojobo]

I suspect that its one of those interesting past times, that struggles to find a real world use, like juggling and stamp collecting

I dunno, I'm quite handy with a broom handle now!

 

[Sojobo]

How did that compare to your other art(s) in practice? thank you

As you can imagine, there were more similarities to sword work, but naturally there were many aspects that crossed over to Karate as well.

In particular, concepts such as distance, timing and centre line work were vital.

 

[Sojobo]

To the OP, we're you doing this in formation or as a single entity?

Hi Midnight-shadow,

I'm not sure what you mean by formation, but we practiced as a group, first doing kihon (basics) then pair work, and then we did randori (free fighting).

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Hi Midnight-shadow,

I'm not sure what you mean by formation, but we practiced as a group, first doing kihon (basics) then pair work, and then we did randori (free fighting).

Like this:

Where you are all in a line and thrust in sync as a single unit.

 

[jobo]

I dunno, I'm quite handy with a broom handle now!

just a bit of light hearted teasing, people think I have odd hobbies as well

 

[Sojobo]

Like this:

Where you are all in a line and thrust in sync as a single unit.

Ah, I see.

Whilst we did the basics to a count (together), we were practicing the techniques as if to do them singularly then progressing on to one to one engagements.

I dare say there may be some formation stuff higher up in the syllabus, but it was a one day seminar - a 'taster' as it were - so we only covered the real basics.

 

[Chris Parker]

Like this:

Where you are all in a line and thrust in sync as a single unit.

Hi,

Jukendo is a modern Japanese martial art, derived largely from sojutsu (spearmanship), and, like most martial arts (particularly Japanese), the idea is for solo performance of the art, not group formation applications. The only group formation training I have seen in Japanese arts is in old forms of kyujutsu (archery), such as Heki Ryu. I wouldn't expect to see such an approach in any study of Jukendo, aside from Sojobo's mention of everyone training in kihon together (but singly).

Gary... I haven't done any formal jukendo training, but I do have a couple of mokujuken that I have done some training with... I was teaching sojutsu at one point in two dojo, but only one of them had the space for it.... so I adapted the waza for bayonet for the other group. Made it quite interesting! Out of interest, how much does the bogus soften the strikes? Those mokujuken I have are rather, uh, solid to be hit by.... far more than a shinai....

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Hi,

Jukendo is a modern Japanese martial art, derived largely from sojutsu (spearmanship), and, like most martial arts (particularly Japanese), the idea is for solo performance of the art, not group formation applications. The only group formation training I have seen in Japanese arts is in old forms of kyujutsu (archery), such as Heki Ryu. I wouldn't expect to see such an approach in any study of Jukendo, aside from Sojobo's mention of everyone training in kihon together (but singly).

Gary... I haven't done any formal jukendo training, but I do have a couple of mokujuken that I have done some training with... I was teaching sojutsu at one point in two dojo, but only one of them had the space for it.... so I adapted the waza for bayonet for the other group. Made it quite interesting! Out of interest, how much does the bogus soften the strikes? Those mokujuken I have are rather, uh, solid to be hit by.... far more than a shinai....

I see. That makes sense.

 

[Sojobo]

Gary... I haven't done any formal jukendo training, but I do have a couple of mokujuken that I have done some training with... I was teaching sojutsu at one point in two dojo, but only one of them had the space for it.... so I adapted the waza for bayonet for the other group. Made it quite interesting! Out of interest, how much does the bogus soften the strikes? Those mokujuken I have are rather, uh, solid to be hit by.... far more than a shinai....

Hi Chris,

In addition to standard kendo bogu, we were wearing a piece of armour called a kata (or that's how it was pronounced) - similar to a medieval Pauldron. Under that we wore a futon.

I think without this - it would have hurt.

As it was, I nursed a few bruises over the week that followed.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Gary,

Yeah, I figured there'd be something extra... there's little give in that oak! Kata would be correct, I'd say... after all, kata (肩) means "shoulder"....

Sounds like a fun experience! Bruises not withstanding, of course....