"Jui Jitsu just teaches you not to hurt your opponent"

[RTKDCMB]

When I think of TKD, I don't think of blocking and applying arm bars.

I think of that.

Then maybe you need a wider perspective? When I think of BJJ I think of two people rolling around on the floor making human pretzels but I know it is more than that.

Not every self defense situation requires maximum force though

I believe that is what I was getting at.

and if I choke someone unconscious, choking them to death isn't necessary.

If I knock someone out I do not need to stomp on their ribs.

 

[drop bear]

The idea of "submitting" someone without hurting them is primarily about sport competition. In a self-defense situation, there is no tapping out. If you have to apply a joint lock, you will need to break the opponent's arm or leg and move on. You might be able to choke someone out without harm or (in a less serious situation) pin them until they calm down, but you can't count on that.

So you feel serious encounters that require you to break limbs are the more common threat?

 

[RTKDCMB]

A grappler's worst nightmare.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

So you feel serious encounters that require you to break limbs are the more common threat?

Depends on your circumstances. I don't engage in monkey dance rituals and I'm not in a profession that requires me to use force and I have no qualms about walking or running away from a fight. If I'm in a position where I have to defend myself and I can't get away, then breaking limbs is probably on the table. If I'm ever in a situation where I have to restrain a violent, mentally ill family member, then hopefully I can just pin them on the ground until they run out of steam, without causing positional asphyxia.

My point was that joint locks are a major part of jiu-jitsu. If you're in a self-defense situation, you can't just let go if someone "taps." There's no ref to keep them from attacking you again the moment you release the lock. If the circumstances don't justify breaking the limb, then you shouldn't be applying the lock in the first place.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When I think of TKD, I don't think of blocking and applying arm bars.

That doesn't really say anything about TKD, it only says something about how weak your understanding of TKD is.

 

[Sojobo]

Ha, mate, you really need to see some of the stuff in Koryu… some of it's simply outright bloody murder! Ha!

Indeed, some of our stuff would leave you in a wheelchair - if you were lucky!!

 

[Hanzou]

Then maybe you need a wider perspective? When I think of BJJ I think of two people rolling around on the floor making human pretzels but I know it is more than that.

More like two people hugging each other until someone goes to sleep, breaks a limb, or dies. However, for the most part your view would be correct.

If I knock someone out I do not need to stomp on their ribs.

Wouldn't you need to strike them in order to knock them out? Further, what if you just knocked them down? Wouldn't you then need to perform a follow up to keep them on the ground?

 

[RTKDCMB]

More like two people hugging each other until someone goes to sleep, breaks a limb, or dies. However, for the most part your view would be correct./QUOTE]

Combat cuddling.

Wouldn't you need to strike them in order to knock them out?

There are many ways to knock someone out and not all of them include striking, for example; throw them on the ground hard, choke, strangle, chloroform.

Further, what if you just knocked them down? Wouldn't you then need to perform a follow up to keep them on the ground?

Usually, but that all depends on my evaluation of their threat level at the time. Sometimes just knocking them down may be enough.

 

[Chris Parker]

Indeed, some of our stuff would leave you in a wheelchair - if you were lucky!!

Ha, and that's just your Sosuishi Ryu, Gary… get Steve to show you some of the Araki Ryu stuff… sheer, bloody-minded murder… gotta love it! Oh, just be cautious if he starts suggesting that he makes you a cup of tea…

 

[Instructor]

I personally would rather recieve an epic beating with fists than have my arm rotated out of socket. Now eye gouges and stuff like that are just terrible no matter what way you paint it.

BJJ is a good system but it's the person doing it making the choices that decides the level of harm, not the system. Untrained people maim and kill each other every day, no system required.