John Danaher: "The next big evolution in Bjj is developing a unique standing position"

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm talking about Guard pulls.

If A trains "guard pull" for 5 years, and B trains "under hook leg spring" for 5 years. When B does "under hook leg spring" on A,

- A's left arm is controlled by B's both hand.
- A's right hand cannot reach to B.
- A is forced into a bow-arrow stance. This make A's backward pull impossible.

What chance will A have at that moment. Can A still apply "guard pull"?

The under hook is easy to obtain. A hook punch followed by an arm extending can do the job. The leg spring followed by a knee strike on the face can be deadly. Can one use "guard pull" to solve all this issues?

I don't believe "guard pull" can be a master key that open all locks. One still must know how to deal with under hook, over hook, head lock, waist wrap, bear hug, ... In other words, one still must master the stand up wrestling skill.

 

[Hanzou]

If A trains "guard pull" for 5 years, and B trains "under hook leg spring" for 5 years. When B does "under hook leg spring" on A,

- A's left arm is controlled by B's both hand.
- A's right hand cannot reach to B.
- A is forced into a bow-arrow stance. This make A's backward pull impossible.

What chance will A have at that moment. Can A still apply "guard pull"?

The under hook is easy to obtain. A hook punch followed by an arm extending can do the job. The leg spring followed by a knee strike on the face can be deadly. Can one use "guard pull" to solve all this issues?

I don't believe "guard pull" can be a master key that open all locks. One still must know how to deal with under hook, over hook, head lock, waist wrap, bear hug, ... In other words, one still must master the stand up wrestling skill.

I think we’re talking different contexts here. I’m talking about BJJ competition. You seem to be talking in general terms. In BJJ comp, there’s simply not enough benefit to learn a ton of takedowns. You’re simply awarded more for groundwork, so getting to the floor is more important than executing an amazing throw. This is why guard pulling is king, because it’s simply more effective (and easier) to pull someone into guard than to attempt to execute a highly technical throw. In fact, if your goal is competition, you’d actually be harming your game by learning a lot of highly technical throws instead of focusing on your groundwork.

I also think you have a very narrow view of what a guard pull is. There’s multiple types of guard pull that leads into everything from closed guard to 50/50 to half guard, and they each have different types of entries. If you’re dealing with a wrestler you can do anything from a standard pull to an Imanari roll.

This video shows the various types of guard pulling in MMA;

 

[drop bear]

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think we’re talking different contexts here. I’m talking about BJJ competition. You seem to be talking in general terms. In BJJ comp, there’s simply not enough benefit to learn a ton of takedowns. You’re simply awarded more for groundwork, so getting to the floor is more important than executing an amazing throw. This is why guard pulling is king, because it’s simply more effective (and easier) to pull someone into guard than to attempt to execute a highly technical throw. In fact, if your goal is competition, you’d actually be harming your game by learning a lot of highly technical throws instead of focusing on your groundwork.

I also think you have a very narrow view of what a guard pull is. There’s multiple types of guard pull that leads into everything from closed guard to 50/50 to half guard, and they each have different types of entries. If you’re dealing with a wrestler you can do anything from a standard pull to an Imanari roll.

This video shows the various types of guard pulling in MMA;

Interesting. Some of those I handn't thought of as "pulling guard" - they look like a kind of single-leg (by the way I define it in my mind), but I see how they're using it to pass through guard.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I really like his breakdown of the exposures, and how he addresses what's specific to BJJ rules (which are, IMO, more "real life" friendly than Judo rules, in general).

 

[Hanzou]

He makes some very strong points here. In order for this to take hold, he's going to have to show it in the competition sphere. If he produces players who are winning because of these concepts, he'll change the game (again).

 

[Acronym]

Yeah that's what I meant. A system better for competitive Bjj than just copy-pasting wrestling and Judo techniques which is what a lot of people do now.

BJJ is judo. Judo was called Jiujitsu in Brazil when Maeda taught the Brazilians. And that's the name it bears today

Everything is copy and pasted and at most modified.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Here’s a newer video showing the sort of BJJ tournament specific skills Danaher is talking about:

 

[Gerry Seymour]

BJJ is judo. Judo was called Jiujitsu in Brazil when Maeda taught the Brazilians. And that's the name it bears today

Everything is copy and pasted and at most modified.

Not quite true. It was at BJJ’s origin, but it has developed beyond that AND has other influences.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here’s a newer video showing the sort of BJJ tournament specific skills Danaher is talking about:

In that clip, why does he allow his opponent's left arm to warp around his waist in the 1st place? He should release his right hand hold and over hook his opponent's left arm elbow joint, force his opponent to step in, and ...

When a counter works on you, sometime it's your fault because you allow your opponent's hand to control a certain part of your body (such as a waist wrap).

 

[Hanzou]

BJJ is judo. Judo was called Jiujitsu in Brazil when Maeda taught the Brazilians. And that's the name it bears today

Everything is copy and pasted and at most modified.

Judo was called Kano Jiujitsu when Maeda left Japan in 1904.

As for everything being copy-pasted and modified, how's Judo leg locking going these days?

 

[Hanzou]

In that clip, why does he allow his opponent's left arm to warp around his waist in the 1st place? He should release his right hand hold and over hook his opponent's left arm elbow joint, force his opponent to step in, and ...

When a counter works on you, sometime it's your fault because you allow your opponent's hand to control a certain part of your body (such as a waist wrap).

That's easy to say from an armchair. When you're in the moment attempting to get a throw off, you can often overlook the danger you've put yourself into. This is especially true in a competitive environment where that successful throw can win the match for you. Hell, you might even feel his arm wrap around your waist and the counter incoming, and you'll ignore it completely because you're totally committed to getting that throw off.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's easy to say from an armchair. When you're in the moment attempting to get a throw off, you can often overlook the danger you've put yourself into. This is especially true in a competitive environment where that successful throw can win the match for you. Hell, you might even feel his arm wrap around your waist and the counter incoming, and you'll ignore it completely because you're totally committed to getting that throw off.

True in pretty much every endeavor. Top-level Judo players throw each other using openings both know how to avoid giving and throws both know how to counter. Same goes for soccer/football players, and everyone else. In the moment, it's impossible to analyze every single variable.

 

[Acronym]

Judo was called Kano Jiujitsu when Maeda left Japan in 1904.

As for everything being copy-pasted and modified, how's Judo leg locking going these days?

Judo has leg locks. Check old footage of Kimura.

 

[Hanzou]

Judo has leg locks. Check old footage of Kimura.

How about some modern footage of a Judoka doing leg locks? Kimura has been dead for almost 30 years.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you're in the moment attempting to get a throw off, you can often overlook the danger you've put yourself into.

The concern is if your opponent's arm can reach to your waist, the faster that you move in, the easier that your opponent can take you down.

So what should be the solution here?

You can also guide your opponent's left arm into your right arm. This way, his left arm won't be able to wrap around your waist.

The more effort that you may spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm, the less chance that his free arm can wrap around your waist.

The question is what percentage of your effort that you are willing to spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm/arms?

 

[Hanzou]

The concern is if your opponent's arm can reach to your waist, the faster that you move in, the easier that your opponent can take you down.

So what should be the solution here?

You can also guide your opponent's left arm into your right arm. This way, his left arm won't be able to wrap around your waist.

The more effort that you may spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm, the less chance that his free arm can wrap around your waist.

The question is what percentage of your effort that you are willing to spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm/arms?

These counters are known. It isn’t like this is some new information or revelation that no one trains for. Again, what happens is that you simply get caught and your opponent counters you and ruins your day. This is why I personally don’t do hip throws because they have a very small screw up window, and if you screw up, you will get countered.

 

[dunc]

The concern is if your opponent's arm can reach to your waist, the faster that you move in, the easier that your opponent can take you down.

So what should be the solution here?

You can also guide your opponent's left arm into your right arm. This way, his left arm won't be able to wrap around your waist.

The more effort that you may spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm, the less chance that his free arm can wrap around your waist.

The question is what percentage of your effort that you are willing to spend on dealing with your opponent's free arm/arms?

The problem with the 1st demonstration is that the attacker is trying to do a hip throw without unbalancing his opponent
Anyone can counter that kind of throw if they are standing on balance and waiting for the hips and feet to enter in

And I agree that being on the outside of the arm is a good place to be

 

[Acronym]

How about some modern footage of a Judoka doing leg locks? Kimura has been dead for almost 30 years.

Leg locks werent originally in BJJ competitions either, which is more evidence that they copy and pasted from Kosen Judo.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Leg locks werent originally in BJJ competitions either, which is more evidence that they copy and pasted from Kosen Judo.

If you understood the history of BJJ and the approach of the practitioners, you wouldn't believe that nonsense. Its original primary influence (likely not the only initial influence) was Judo. It's far from a "copy and paste".