Joe Rogan

[Boomer]

Whether the wrist is up or down, it's still considered an Ude Garami. So why do the Brazilian slang names need to be specific when the Japanese derivative name is not?

I will humor this question.
When I first began in BJJ, I was a hard core traditionalist. I bitched constantly that "I don't call my style 'American Shotokan'....so why is this Japanese system being 'Brazilianized'?" But it is distincly different from other Japanese systems of jujitsu...ask Wally Jay Or Gene LeBelle.

Turns out they are very specific with the technical terms they use.
The Gracie's named the technique "Kimura's Lock" because Kimura defeated Helio Gracie with it.
They use the term "americana" to differentiate between the two. There are distinct differences in application and escape.

So if he's going to use that terminology, he should at least use it correctly.

But Joe messes up regularly even on simple things like guillotine choke. If the choker doesn't have the neck encircled, and instead has a head and arm...it is not a guillotine. But Joe calls 'em all guillotines. Never an attempt to differentiate it from a "head and arm" choke, "anaconda", or "Arm triangle".

And the worst part is he doesn't just mess it up....he messes it up with screaming. If anyone saw the last Mirko Cro-cop Filipovich fight, they heard Rogan's super annoying repetitions of "Ahhh man! Look at his leg! His leg is Bent all funny underneath him! Did you see his leg? His leg might be injured! Look at his leg! Look how it's bent! His leg might be damaged!"

 

[Odin]

I will humor this question.
When I first began in BJJ, I was a hard core traditionalist. I bitched constantly that "I don't call my style 'American Shotokan'....so why is this Japanese system being 'Brazilianized'?" But it is distincly different from other Japanese systems of jujitsu...ask Wally Jay Or Gene LeBelle.

Turns out they are very specific with the technical terms they use.
The Gracie's named the technique "Kimura's Lock" because Kimura defeated Helio Gracie with it.
They use the term "americana" to differentiate between the two. There are distinct differences in application and escape.

So if he's going to use that terminology, he should at least use it correctly.

But Joe messes up regularly even on simple things like guillotine choke. If the choker doesn't have the neck encircled, and instead has a head and arm...it is not a guillotine. But Joe calls 'em all guillotines. Never an attempt to differentiate it from a "head and arm" choke, "anaconda", or "Arm triangle".

And the worst part is he doesn't just mess it up....he messes it up with screaming. If anyone saw the last Mirko Cro-cop Filipovich fight, they heard Rogan's super annoying repetitions of "Ahhh man! Look at his leg! His leg is Bent all funny underneath him! Did you see his leg? His leg might be injured! Look at his leg! Look how it's bent! His leg might be damaged!"

your acting like every MMA fan is a BBJ expert? Dana is trying to make the ufc a house hold sport who gives a crap if its an anaconda or a guillotine?you would only know the difference if you did BJJ and even then if you know what the guys going for why does it bother you?
not to mention if you see a live show or even if you watch it its hard to determine what exactly each fighter is going for.

Did you see Mirko's leg? i looked at it and thought he's really lucky to be walking.

 

[Gotkenpo]

your acting like every MMA fan is a BBJ expert? Dana is trying to make the ufc a house hold sport who gives a crap if its an anaconda or a guillotine?you would only know the difference if you did BJJ and even then if you know what the guys going for why does it bother you?
not to mention if you see a live show or even if you watch it its hard to determine what exactly each fighter is going for.

Did you see Mirko's leg? i looked at it and thought he's really lucky to be walking.

I am an avid MMA fan and have zero knowledge of BJJ and basic knowledge of a few other styles including wrestling. I for one am thankful for the way Rogan talks us through what is happening when the fights go to the ground. I also think Goldberg should shut up.....

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I will humor this question.
When I first began in BJJ, I was a hard core traditionalist. I bitched constantly that "I don't call my style 'American Shotokan'....so why is this Japanese system being 'Brazilianized'?" But it is distincly different from other Japanese systems of jujitsu...ask Wally Jay Or Gene LeBelle.

Turns out they are very specific with the technical terms they use.
The Gracie's named the technique "Kimura's Lock" because Kimura defeated Helio Gracie with it.
They use the term "americana" to differentiate between the two. There are distinct differences in application and escape.

So if he's going to use that terminology, he should at least use it correctly.

But Joe messes up regularly even on simple things like guillotine choke. If the choker doesn't have the neck encircled, and instead has a head and arm...it is not a guillotine. But Joe calls 'em all guillotines. Never an attempt to differentiate it from a "head and arm" choke, "anaconda", or "Arm triangle".

And the worst part is he doesn't just mess it up....he messes it up with screaming. If anyone saw the last Mirko Cro-cop Filipovich fight, they heard Rogan's super annoying repetitions of "Ahhh man! Look at his leg! His leg is Bent all funny underneath him! Did you see his leg? His leg might be injured! Look at his leg! Look how it's bent! His leg might be damaged!"

Not all of them. I know more than a few BJJ instructors (at least two actually from Brazil) that interchange the names. Besides BJJ is not the only grappling system on the planet. As I said in an earlier post 'Ude Garami' That covers several Ju Jitsu systems, Jiu Jitsu systems, Judo, JuJujutsu, Aikido, Aiki-Jitsu, Aiki-Jutsu, etc.

It's Still a guillotine in many Jiu/Ju Jitsu circles. Mario Sperry (a very notable BJJ instructor for those not in the know) teaches an arm inside guillotine on his instructional series, he calls it.....wait for it...the guillotine.

You're debating about the nomenclature but there really is no debate. The names can be mixed around because the moves are labelled different between systems and between instructors within the same system (including BJJ). If YOU want it to be specific I can respect that. But...there are others with different opinions. I for one have never been confused with Joe Rogan's commentary. If he interchanges a name I am fully aware of the move he describing.

Side Note: If you're going to name drop while mentioning specific names please be specific with the names. It's Gene LeBell not LeBelle. I don't know who you are talking about unless you spell it correctly and specifically. And the L and E keys are too far apart to claim typo

Good discussion, keep it rollin'

Salute...or is Salut?

 

[Tames D]

Not all of them. I know more than a few BJJ instructors (at least two actually from Brazil) that interchange the names. Besides BJJ is not the only grappling system on the planet. As I said in an earlier post 'Ude Garami' That covers several Ju Jitsu systems, Jiu Jitsu systems, Judo, JuJujutsu, Aikido, Aiki-Jitsu, Aiki-Jutsu, etc.

It's Still a guillotine in many Jiu/Ju Jitsu circles. Mario Sperry (a very notable BJJ instructor for those not in the know) teaches an arm inside guillotine on his instructional series, he calls it.....wait for it...the guillotine.

You're debating about the nomenclature but there really is no debate. The names can be mixed around because the moves are labelled different between systems and between instructors within the same system (including BJJ). If YOU want it to be specific I can respect that. But...there are others with different opinions. I for one have never been confused with Joe Rogan's commentary. If he interchanges a name I am fully aware of the move he describing.

Side Note: If you're going to name drop while mentioning specific names please be specific with the names. It's Gene LeBell not LeBelle. I don't know who you are talking about unless you spell it correctly and specifically. And the L and E keys are too far apart to claim typo

Good discussion, keep it rollin'

Salute...or is Salut?

Good post

.

 

[Boomer]

The original question you asked me was :

Whether the wrist is up or down, it's still considered an Ude Garami. So why do the Brazilian slang names need to be specific when the Japanese derivative name is not?

So I answered that. Let's review:

Turns out they are very specific with the technical terms they use.
The Gracie's named the technique "Kimura's Lock" because Kimura defeated Helio Gracie with it.
They use the term "americana" to differentiate between the two. There are distinct differences in application and escape.

And your retort was "not all of them".

Well, of course not all of them. That'd be silly to say that everyone's grappling is universal and factory made. Mine's better ; D it's hand crafted with love and attention.

It's easier to distinguish what technique you're talking about if you are specific. That's all.

Mario Sperry (a very notable BJJ instructor for those not in the know) teaches an arm inside guillotine on his instructional series, he calls it.....wait for it...the guillotine.

As I recall on this DVD (which I have in my collection) he calls it the "arm inside guillotine", then shortens it to "guillotine" once we know what he's talking about. But I don't wanna nit pick. I'm getting off topic.

If YOU want it to be specific I can respect that. But...there are others with different opinions. I for one have never been confused with Joe Rogan's commentary. If he interchanges a name I am fully aware of the move he describing.

My point is this: I don't want my martial arts entertainment dumbed down. Joe Rogan is that guy who you used to be friends with and went out to the bars, but you grew up, and he's still doing all the asinine things you did in college. He's that guy that's all in your face high fiving and spilling his drink all over the place and spits when he talks, and chases the hot girl away from you.
I have no problem uderstanding what he's saying. He just annoys me. Extremely.
I believe that martial sports should be a gentleman's game, not a frat boy's. Even Dick Vitale doesn't annoy me as much as Rogan.


As far as butchering ol' Judo Gene's last name, I have no excuse. I made a Rogan.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

As I recall on this DVD (which I have in my collection) he calls it the "arm inside guillotine", then shortens it to "guillotine" once we know what he's talking about. But I don't wanna nit pick. I'm getting off topic.

Awesome, I have everything Sperry's put out. It's great material. Back to topic.... Exactly, It's still a guillotine. Just like all the armbars I see that have very specific names in Japanese Ju Jitsu but everyone calls all them "armbars" and make no debates about them being called the "dumbed down" name. The armbars name changes depending on grip used to acquire it, one leg over or two and the position it is used from. But everyone says "armbar". We could make the same arguement that Joe Rogan is using the term guillotine as he is sure that the audience "knows what he is talking about" from past explanations (I've heard him explain how the arm inside guillotine still works and how to do it in commentary).

My point is this: I don't want my martial arts entertainment dumbed down.

Unfortunately for Martial Artists the world over such as yourself the UFC is a mass market product. As such it has to be dumbed down to a degree to appeal to the less educated (with respect to technical martial arts knowledge) general public. I hear the same things when I listen to boxing commentary. Every hook is not just a hook.

Joe Rogan is that guy who you used to be friends with and went out to the bars, but you grew up, and he's still doing all the asinine things you did in college. He's that guy that's all in your face high fiving and spilling his drink all over the place and spits when he talks, and chases the hot girl away from you.
I have no problem uderstanding what he's saying. He just annoys me. Extremely.
I believe that martial sports should be a gentleman's game, not a frat boy's. Even Dick Vitale doesn't annoy me as much as Rogan.

OK, got it. You just don't like Joe Rogan's "style". You're initial post made the point of not really understanding what he was saying due to improper terminology. Now that we've gotten past that, as the terminology is more than accurate...it's just over-simplified for you. Joe just annoys you. Fair enough no debate there, my gripe was 1) the labelling of general terminology as inaccurate because it was "dumbed down" and the claims and 2) implications that Joe Rogan "could not be understood" because of his terminology.

As far as butchering ol' Judo Gene's last name, I have no excuse. I made a Rogan.

No, you didn't make a Rogan by killing Mr. LeBell's name. Rogan "dumbs things down" as you put it. You were actually just wrong and actually made the name more complex instead of less complex. The "Rogan" would be saying "Judo Gene" and assuming people know you mean Gene Lebell and not the late "Judo" Gene Mauro.

 

[Boomer]

You're initial post made the point of not really understanding what he was saying due to improper terminology. Now that we've gotten past that, as the terminology is more than accurate...it's just over-simplified for you. Joe just annoys you. Fair enough no debate there, my gripe was 1) the labelling of general terminology as inaccurate because it was "dumbed down" and the claims and 2) implications that Joe Rogan "could not be understood" because of his terminology.

We'll go in reverse order, here...

#2) I never stated that I didn't understand him. I don't know where you got that from.

#1) I do not believe that his terminology is "more than accurate", either. Seriously.
"More than accurate" means that he speaks in such a way that it's over specific. And you just finished saying that he does the opposite...that it "dumbs it down".


I will give you the guillotine, with the arm in or out.
But I will not concede the kimura. An americana is not a kimura. A chickenwing/ hammerlock is not a kimura. If you're going to use the term kimura, it should be used to specifically define the technique and be used in the proper respect to the man who broke ol' Helio's arm. If Joe wants to be a generalist, he should call it an ude garame, like you said.

 

[Renshi]

We'll go in reverse order, here...

#2) I never stated that I didn't understand him. I don't know where you got that from.

#1) I do not believe that his terminology is "more than accurate", either. Seriously.
"More than accurate" means that he speaks in such a way that it's over specific. And you just finished saying that he does the opposite...that it "dumbs it down".


I will give you the guillotine, with the arm in or out.
But I will not concede the kimura. An americana is not a kimura. A chickenwing/ hammerlock is not a kimura. If you're going to use the term kimura, it should be used to specifically define the technique and be used in the proper respect to the man who broke ol' Helio's arm. If Joe wants to be a generalist, he should call it an ude garame, like you said.

I, too, cannot tolerate Rogan. I would prefer one who is not so obtuse...or loud. Being specific on technical termage couldn't hurt, though when I watch UFC with friends (and alcohol) who do not study a martial art, I am deemed a "martial snob". I say, so be it. But then they always ask "what just happened?" when there is a quick tap out and Joe has not significantly explained. He usually does better with the slow motion replays, but anyone could, really.
It is OK to not like aspects of a conglomeration who's sole object is to make money. Arguing over such things as "is Joe Rogan a good announcer" is equivalent to arguing whether or not blue is a better color than green.

 

[Skip Cooper]

Arguing over such things as "is Joe Rogan a good announcer" is equivalent to arguing whether or not blue is a better color than green.

Blue IS a better color than green because it is pure. Green is blue mixed with yellow, thus makes it a type of a hybrid. And every one knows that hybrid colors are more inferior than pure ones...but that's my opinion.:wink2: