Japanese sword master deflects arrows with katana

[Ninjamom]

Link to video clip of a Japanese sword master using a katana to deflect arrows. Includes some tameshigiri.

 

[terryl965]

Looks pretty good, but did you notice the young lady was only pulling the bow string back about a quarter of the way which bought the arrow speed down some but still I doubt if I could block that arrow so cudos to him and her.

 

[pgsmith]

It looks interesting, but it is simply a parlor trick. The bow she is using is very light. If you watch, she's able to hold the string with her fingers pinched together (with absolutely horrible form I might add!). It still requires a lot of practice, but it's practice at exactly the same distance with exactly the same bow every time. This allows it to become a simple matter of timing. I knew a gentleman that learned to catch an arrow the same way. Not without an element of danger and skill, but hardly what it seems at first glance.

 

[Iron Leopard]

I've heard the bow and arrow demo is a trick but I've never seen it in person in the 100's of martial arts demo's I've seen.

 

[Ninjamom]

On another forum, I've been involved in an ongoing discussion about exactly this topic. Reverse curve bows, of the kind used by Mongols and medieval Chinese, Japanese, and Korean warriors had a pull of about 35-40 lbs, far below the force generated by a modern compound bow. Still, with practice and use, they produced accuracy at ranges to about 100 yards. Velocity would be about the range of a hard fastball, so deflecting it would not be impossible, or require superhuman skill or strength (keeping in mind that deflection would require the same amount of contact as hitting a foul ball - getting the 'home run' would not be necessary).

Two members of that other forum set up a demo, and began practicing. At 25 yards distance, they found enough drop in the flight path of an arrow shot directly towards a defender to allow the defender to judge the speed and distance of the arrow. This allowed the defender, with minimal practice, to deflect arrows consistently. The team practiced with target arrows -painful but not fatal for missed shots - and were able to repeatedly deflect the arrows, with only one unfortunate (and humorous for those watching)exception. The participants in the demo were an experienced bow hunter and a practitioner of a Korean sword art.

It's not a technique I'd recommend as a first line of defense against archers, but it is something that could be incorporated into battlefield tactics and techniques, if the emergency situation presented itself.

 

[Bob D.]

It looks like the bow used is in the 15 pound pull range and the arrow long and heavy. Still dangerous but ???
Don't try this at home! A target arrow shot from a 15 pound bow will penetrate your body and/or put a nice hole through your hand.
The ancient Mongolian bows where more in the 60 lb. range and the Korean bows 45lb to 65lb range. I promise you will not catch or stop an arrow shot from any bow over 35 lbs.
I have shot and chronographed a 45lb bow made in the traditional Korean style. The Arrow was a heavy 565gr. and it chronographed at an average 165 feet per second. I don't know anybody pitching near that speed!
Regards, Bob

 

[Tames D]

It looks like the bow used is in the 15 pound pull range and the arrow long and heavy. Still dangerous but ???
Don't try this at home! A target arrow shot from a 15 pound bow will penetrate your body and/or put a nice hole through your hand.
The ancient Mongolian bows where more in the 60 lb. range and the Korean bows 45lb to 65lb range. I promise you will not catch or stop an arrow shot from any bow over 35 lbs.
I have shot and chronographed a 45lb bow made in the traditional Korean style. The Arrow was a heavy 565gr. and it chronographed at an average 165 feet per second. I don't know anybody pitching near that speed!
Regards, Bob

Sounds like you know your Archery. Very cool.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I do not think that anyone could catch an arrow from my Korean Horn Bow. (which is strung at 60 lbs) The speed is simply something to behold.
It was in a way after all the origional compound bow.

Definately the video is a parlor trick as the speed of the arrow is so slow. Still it does take a degree of skill and practice but does not really demonstrate any martial ability.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Arrow-cutting is an interesting subject to study. The nature of the type of draw used in Asia, thumb pull rather than finger pull, meant that the bows were consequently of lighter draw. A thumb ring had to be added to draw a heavier bow. I know that both the Mongols and Japanese used thumb rings (there are some beautiful examples still in existence).

The lighter draw of the bow and the inherently unsteady draw technique would work to make arrow-cutting more feasible.

As a by-product of this the heaviest draw known from Asia is the dai-kyu of Japan of which an example at 80lbs pull has been found. Compare this to Europe and Africa and you can see why arrow-cutting was practised in either place.

By the way the heaviest known draw for an ancient bow, not made with modern materials, is from Kenya. A simple bow weighing in at 130-150 lbs.

 

[Ninjamom]

Definately the video is a parlor trick as the speed of the arrow is so slow........

Still, I wouldn't want to be the one standing in front of it!

Hypothetical plan for a new video demo:

Ninjamom: Hey Brian! Hold this sword and stand right there.
Brian R. VanCise: Where are you going?
N: Don't worry, I'll be right over here with this bow.
BRV: I'm not going to stand there. You stand there!
N: I'm not going to stand there. You stand there!
BRV: OK, I'll stand there. But you hold the sword, and I'll hold the bow.

- Demo Cancelled -

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Still, I wouldn't want to be the one standing in front of it!

Hypothetical plan for a new video demo:

Ninjamom: Hey Brian! Hold this sword and stand right there.
Brian R. VanCise: Where are you going?
N: Don't worry, I'll be right over here with this bow.
BRV: I'm not going to stand there. You stand there!
N: I'm not going to stand there. You stand there!
BRV: OK, I'll stand there. But you hold the sword, and I'll hold the bow.

- Demo Cancelled -

Definately it does take a certain degree of skill and guts even for a parlor trick. I would not want to miss one even if the tip was blunt. :erg:

 

[Monadnock]

Jet Li was better IMHO.

 

[Blindside]

Arrow-cutting is an interesting subject to study. The nature of the type of draw used in Asia, thumb pull rather than finger pull, meant that the bows were consequently of lighter draw. A thumb ring had to be added to draw a heavier bow. I know that both the Mongols and Japanese used thumb rings (there are some beautiful examples still in existence).

The lighter draw of the bow and the inherently unsteady draw technique would work to make arrow-cutting more feasible.

As a by-product of this the heaviest draw known from Asia is the dai-kyu of Japan of which an example at 80lbs pull has been found. Compare this to Europe and Africa and you can see why arrow-cutting was practised in either place.

By the way the heaviest known draw for an ancient bow, not made with modern materials, is from Kenya. A simple bow weighing in at 130-150 lbs.

You are simplifing too much, draw weight isn't the only factor in arrow speed, and arrow speed is the only thing that matters in this situation. Bow shape, arrow weight, bow design all play a factor. Sure draw weight is important, longbow arrows run about the same speed as many composite bows, despite their heavier draws they are just less efficient.

Lamont

 

[Steel Tiger]

You are simplifing too much, draw weight isn't the only factor in arrow speed, and arrow speed is the only thing that matters in this situation. Bow shape, arrow weight, bow design all play a factor. Sure draw weight is important, longbow arrows run about the same speed as many composite bows, despite their heavier draws they are just less efficient.

Lamont

Yeah, I probably am. You're right, simple bows are much less effecient than composite and recurved bows. Do you think that the lighter arrows used in Asia (mostly because of construction materials) assist or hinder arrow speed?

 

[Saitama Steve]

Take another look at the way Tanaka Midori (Tanaka Fumon's daugther) looses her arrows - The bow isn't at full extension. Look at the slow arc in which the arrow falls after being loosed. They're doing a parlour trick really.

This actual trianing exercise has been lifted from an obscure koryu bujutsu ryuha called Maniwa Nen-ryu. Maniwa Nen-ryu call the exercise "Yadomejutsu" （矢留術）: Lit. Arrow stopping art/technique. It's unknown if Maniwa Nen-ryu still train in yadomejutsu at this point in time, but when they did, they used tampoya (padded arrows) for safety and would fire with the yumi at full extension. I used to have some VHS footage of that from the 1970's.

Now back to Tanaka Fumon. Watch this demonstration below and pay particular attention to his short sword when he starts performing Odachi Batto (Large sword drawing techniques) you'll be in for a surprise.

- Tanaka Fumon & Midori Performing Koden Enshin-ryu Kumi Uchi Kenden.

 

[pgsmith]

Heh Heh ... that one is interesting. I've not been able to figure out two things about that clip though. First, what the heck is he cutting? Second, how in the world does he manage to make his shoto fly like that?

 

[matt.m]

Parlor trick sure.......still took a ton of practice and skill to do well.

 

[Flying Crane]

It looks like the bow used is in the 15 pound pull range and the arrow long and heavy. Still dangerous but ???
Don't try this at home! A target arrow shot from a 15 pound bow will penetrate your body and/or put a nice hole through your hand.
The ancient Mongolian bows where more in the 60 lb. range and the Korean bows 45lb to 65lb range. I promise you will not catch or stop an arrow shot from any bow over 35 lbs.
I have shot and chronographed a 45lb bow made in the traditional Korean style. The Arrow was a heavy 565gr. and it chronographed at an average 165 feet per second. I don't know anybody pitching near that speed!
Regards, Bob

Actually, I think the old war bows were a good deal heavier than that. I have heard tales of the recurve bows of the Middle East putting the English Longbows to shame during the Crusades. The English Longbows could have a draw weight anywhere from 100 to 150 pounds. Of course the recurve bows are more efficient, and a ligher recurve could have similar power to a heavier Longbow, but the point is, the war bows were really really strong, much more so than most modern bowhunters and bow enthusiasts today could handle. I think the Mongolians had heavy recurves up in that range as well. I think Marco Polo was astounded by the Mongolian bows he saw in his travels into China.

I have a hand-made composite recurve made by Saxon Archery, and it's draw weight is 74 pounds. I moved up to that after growing up shooting a 54 pound straight bow. It's really tough to draw, if I don't shoot regularly, it takes time to work up to it for a full draw. It takes a lot to develop the specific muscles needed for a good draw on a heavy bow. I am glad I let the bowmaker talk me down from getting a 100 pounder. No way could I pull that one, unless I was working on it every single day, and I am sure it would take a long time to get there...

 

[Saitama Steve]

Parlor trick sure.......still took a ton of practice and skill to do well.

That's the thing, to uninitiated, he's making himself out to be a superhuman swordsman when all that is really happening is, his daughter is lightly drawing back the bowstring far enough, so that the arrow can just about reach her father in order that he can cut it out of the air, making all of the audience go "Oooooh!"

Sorry, that's not budo.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

people, seriously.

when did we all turn into a bunch of people who stand around and say 'i coulda done that. it ain't that hard. besides he's cheating'

that was an impressive display of a skill that required time and dedication to develop. i'm damned good and i don't even want to try that.

so it isn't the matrix in real life. it's still way wicked cool.