It's a control issue.

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Must be you then.

Must be me, what?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by RCastillo
The Goldendragon hit me in the throat! I didn't say a word, cause I couldn't speark!

Okay, ever feel like actually answering a question?

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kirk
Okay, ever feel like actually answering a question?

Not, if the IKKO is on the other end of the line!

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Not, if the IKKO is on the other end of the line!

Ya know, one of these days, you are going to be facing some pretty stiff payback......

 

[Kirk]

Y'know, I'm all for kidding around, but damn, there's a million and
one other threads going on that STARTED OFF joking around.

Why does EVERY kenpo thread have to turn into it?
Some of us non black belts wouldn't mind actually LEARNING a
thing or two, or getting some training advice, etc.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Kirk
Y'know, I'm all for kidding around, but damn, there's a million and
one other threads going on that STARTED OFF joking around.

Why does EVERY kenpo thread have to turn into it?
Some of us non black belts wouldn't mind actually LEARNING a
thing or two, or getting some training advice, etc.

Ya ever think maybe they can't answer the question...


My response would be hell no you never get used to somebody wacking you as you play a "stone statue". If they can make it hurt then they can do it with just "influence" and not as much pain. Of course I'm assuming we are talking normal everyday class. Why break your stone? During seminars, camps, etc...expect it to crank up a little (or alot ), but during regular class why crack a guy everytime unless you have issues with your ego and you require it to remain inflated at all times.

Show a visible level of discomfort with getting tagged so hard and maybe he or she will ease up. Otherwise pull them over to the side and let them know. I know its blasphamy in this "martial" arts world, but at least it's better than them running you off. Of course some will disagree and just say your soft......

jb:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
Ya ever think maybe they can't answer the question...


My response would be hell no you never get used to somebody wacking you as you play a "stone statue". If they can make it hurt then they can do it with just "influence" and not as much pain. Of course I'm assuming we are talking normal everyday class. Why break your stone? During seminars, camps, etc...expect it to crank up a little (or alot ), but during regular class why crack a guy everytime unless you have issues with your ego and you require it to remain inflated at all times.

Show a visible level of discomfort with getting tagged so hard and maybe he or she will ease up. Otherwise pull them over to the side and let them know. I know its blasphamy in this "martial" arts world, but at least it's better than them running you off. Of course some will disagree and just say your soft......

jb:asian:

THANK YOU for replying to my question!

Actually, my problem isn't when they want to light me up, my
problem comes when they exercise control. It feels like a good
hard slap! It's surface sting, not penetration pain. Is this
common?

 

[Kenpodoc]

Originally posted by Kirk
THANK YOU for replying to my question!

Actually, my problem isn't when they want to light me up, my
problem comes when they exercise control. It feels like a good
hard slap! It's surface sting, not penetration pain. Is this
common?

It's interesting, I find that when some people strike me, my body may move but it's just a surface sting. Others hit me and on the surface it feels light, my body may not even move, but it feels like a ball of energy penetrates and strikes my internal organs. I've had some people strike me and my skin didn't hurt but my kidney yelled "no mas" and I just wanted to fall to my knees and puke.

Personally I'm trying to develop the surface sting, body movement strike for positional control and the depth charge for finishing movement. Unfortunately I haven't learned how to turn it on and off yet, but I'm just a beginner.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Kirk
THANK YOU for replying to my question!

Actually, my problem isn't when they want to light me up, my
problem comes when they exercise control. It feels like a good
hard slap! It's surface sting, not penetration pain. Is this
common?

My answer would be yes...but I still don't define that as controlled. The good thing out of this is that you see how it can feel and are hopefully being trained so that the ability will be transfered to your method of execution, and you can eventually be the bigger man and not kill your training partner.

jb

 

[Robbo]

Actually, my problem isn't when they want to light me up, my problem comes when they exercise control. It feels like a good
hard slap! It's surface sting, not penetration pain. Is this
common?

Would this not be someone exercising proper control and using depth of penetration properly so as to not cause damage? To keep the force of the strike at the surface with a shallow penetration.

Depending on the purpose of the strike you would have to vary this for the desired results though.

Rob

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Robbo
Would this not be someone exercising proper control and using depth of penetration properly so as to not cause damage? To keep the force of the strike at the surface with a shallow penetration.

Depending on the purpose of the strike you would have to vary this for the desired results though.

Rob

The purpose in my case, is to use intent while doing techniques
on each other.

 

[Robbo]

The purpose in my case, is to use intent while doing techniques

Not what I meant....

What I meant was that some strikes are snapping and some are thrusting. Due to the nature of a snapping strike it is fairly easy to make the depth of penetration shallow for control purposes (translation- not hurting your partner). The thrusting strike is a little more tricky as you do not want to slow down the strike (to practise is realistically) but you still want a significant depth of penetration to cause a desired reaction (moving the body in a certain dir, causing them to make a step, etc.).

In the case of the thrusting strike you can alter your weapons to spread out the force w/o sacrificing speed/force. You can hit the inside of the leg with the point of your knee to widen his base (buckling) and cause considerable pain as the inside of the thigh is very sensitive. But if you change the weapon to be the entire front top surface of your leg (quadricep) then you can hit the same target with the same speed/force and not cause your partner as much pain but still getting the desired result of widening their base (buckling).

There is also the scenario of your partner being familiar with the techniques and 'going' with it allowing you to execute at full power/speed. In the preceding example your partner knowing a strike to the inside of their thigh is coming would take the weight off of the leg that is going to be struck and would let your strike bounce his leg out widening his base (again buckling).

Rob

 

[Kirk]

Thanks Rob, big help.

 

[Bujingodai]

So would you say it wise to continue training with a common uke? I find that generally happens anyway.

 

[Robbo]

So would you say it wise to continue training with a common uke? I find that generally happens anyway.

Oh, hey Dave,

Not sure who you are talking to or what you are getting at? What do you mean by 'common'?

Rob

 

[Brother John]

I think he's saying to use the same attacker each time, I think.

I don't think that this would be the way to go as working with a variety of people increases our insight into the techs and how to tweak them to adapt.

I think that Kenpo's two greatest strengths are:
Practical Logic
and
Adaptability...

Your Brother
John

 

[Robbo]

yep, you should be able to pull your stuff off on anybody, within reason of course. If your stuff only works on your favourite student or training partner then you are being limited by your environment.

Rob

 

[Jill666]

Agreed- I first learn the technique according to the curriculum, then have my uke try to screw me up. Once some insight and adaptability is gained within the moves, we swap ukes to work it some more against different body types and reactions. But initially we work with the same people just due to knowing that person's anatomy and learning style I think keeps the focus on the technique until we're ready to pull it apart. Lastly, we know each other's tolerance and weaknesses so when putting some oomph into the moves, there's less chance of accidents.

 

[Nightingale]

it seems that the attitude in my school regarding control is "whatever the attitude, so the response"

if someone comes at me hard in a technique line, they're gonna get hit back with equal force (or as equal as I can manage). If someone is afraid and timid, I'm gonna be gentle with them, because they're already afraid of getting hurt.

Each person needs to be taken on an individual basis. These people are your comerades. You know who you can hit and who can't have bruises showing at work the next day. Use common sense.

 

[Les]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
it seems that the attitude in my school regarding control is "whatever the attitude, so the response"

if someone comes at me hard in a technique line, they're gonna get hit back with equal force (or as equal as I can manage). If someone is afraid and timid, I'm gonna be gentle with them, because they're already afraid of getting hurt.

Nightingale,

You would be the ideal training partner for me.
I'm afraid of getting hurt. And I'm shy and timid too.

Les