ITF vs WTF

[mvcoburn]

I am new to this forum so I apologize if this subject has already been covered. My son has been involved with WTF schools since he started taekwondo about 5 years ago. He is a 1st Dan and is passionate about his martial arts. The one thing I always liked about WTF schools was that, once you were certified as a black belt, you could (essentially) walk into any other WTF school and they must accept you at that rank.

Recently we moved to an area where WTF schools are very limited. In fact, the closest one is about 30 minutes away. Regardless of the distance, we signed him up and he has been practicing for about 6 months there. The problem is that I don't like this school. The Grandmaster doesn't spend a lot of time with the kids and sits in the back during classes and surfs the internet. The school also promotes a lot of strange, corny traditions where everybody has to jump up and down and scream before and after class to show their enthusiasm. While that is ok, what makes it worse is that the instruction is sub-par. As mentioned, my son is a 1st Dan and I have seen 2nd Dan's in his class who can't perform any of the kicks and shouldn't even be yellow belts. What is the most frustrating thing is that my son has been a 1st Dan for about a year and they have shown him nothing for what he needs to learn for 2nd Dan. I asked the Grandmaster the other day about sparring and if he participated in any WTF tournaments (regionals, USAT,etc.) He stated that sparring training is too hard on kids and that he only promotes events where everybody wins and feels good.

Now, I am looking for a new school. There is a school, much closer to where I am located, but it is an ITF school. I know very little about ITF and was concerned about the switch. I met with the Master/Owner who told me the history behind both organizations. He also assured me that he would allow my son to keep his black belt and test him for his 1st Dan in ITF style. I am impressed by the school because they seem to be more organized, offer more/different types of training and they are much closer, but what I don't want to do screw up my son's taekwondo and limit his future. My intent is to put him into the best position for whatever he wants to do with his taekwondo.

What are your thoughts?

 

[dancingalone]

...While that is ok, what makes it worse is that the instruction is sub-par.

...I am impressed by the school because they seem to be more organized, offer more/different types of training and they are much closer, but what I don't want to do screw up my son's taekwondo and limit his future. My intent is to put him into the best position for whatever he wants to do with his taekwondo.

What are your thoughts?

Your situation is rather open-ended as you don't state how old your son is nor what immediate goals he might have. I can offer a few common-sense remarks which I hope will help bring you clarity on how you want to proceed. For the record, I think it's great that you're so involved with your son's TKD and that you are actively thinking about his future in the art.

First, if your son has any ambitions whatsoever at competing in Olympic-rules sparring, you're pretty much resigned to finding a program that is focused on such things. That's easier said than done as there are many TKD dojang (such as mine) whose instructors hold KKW rank, yet they do not pay much attention if any to the Olympic sport at all. And to get to the top rungs of the sport, you have to train with coaches that specialize within it as various members here will tell you.

Second, there are physical differences in the movements, stances, and techniques as defined by the two styles, though certainly you will find members of each group(s) with a varying range of compliance to the organization standards. Your son, if he switches, will have to change his TKD if you and he makes a true break with one with intentions of progressing genuinely along the other path. This may or may not be a big deal depending on your son's age and personality. It can be frustrating to relearn something you understood in one way if you have grooved into it already.

Third, if your son's goals are to own and operate a dojang eventually, I don't know that organization and style is really all that important. That comes down more to funding and business acumen as well as a skill and desire to help others become better. It is true that KKW certification is a lot more prevalent all over the world and this may be an overriding issue in some countries where it is the only one accepted to operate a dojang (allegedly - I do not have confirmation that this is necessarily true). However in the USA if that is where you are from, there is no such requirement, and in fact regionally, it may be more advantageous to hold other certifications at this time if close tournament support is important to you.

Fourth, as a general maxim, I always say train with the best teacher you can find and afford regardless of style or system. I think success in one's life actually follows from a commitment to overall excellence, and the rest are just trappings. If your son is skilled in taekwondo and is great with people, I think most of the blueprint is already there. Help him find teachers and situations that will foster that growth.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

[mvcoburn]

Man, this is a great response and I really appreciate your comments. To answer some of your questions, my son is 9 years old and I really don't know what his aspirations will for taekwondo. If you ask him, he says he will never quit and wants to practice forever. For me, I just want him to continue to progress and have the opportunity available if he wants to teach or own his own school.

My son has trained for competitions and participates in the Junior Olympics every year so I understand your comment about KKW instructors not wanting to train the Olympic sport. My issue is that, regardless of the school that he chooses (WTF or ITF), both do not participate in WTF competitions so I am "on my own". His ITF school does participate in ITF sparring which, as you know, is different than WTF style. What I would like to do is see if I can convince his ITF school to participate in AAU tournaments. Maybe that would be something positive.

I am leaning towards the ITF school, primarily because of their locality and organized program. My son has been to a few of the ITF classes and says that he really likes them. I don't know how much of this is due to the fact that it is something new and fresh. I guess time will tell.

This may be a bad question, but theoretically, if all things were equal, which style (WTF or ITF) provides the most benefit or provides the better future?

 

[dancingalone]

For me, I just want him to continue to progress and have the opportunity available if he wants to teach or own his own school.
...
This may be a bad question, but theoretically, if all things were equal, which style (WTF or ITF) provides the most benefit or provides the better future?

I really don't think there's a universal answer to that. The most recognizable MA movie stars in the world train in other arts than TKD. Segal = aikido, Jet Li & Jackie Chan = Shaolin, Van Damm = kickboxing. MMA stars by definition train within a confined subset of techniques from a variety of martial arts that are useful in the ring. And the most financial successful TKD school owners I know (they're millionaires) operate under the ATA Songahm umbrella which is neither KKW nor ITF.

It sounds like the ITF school might be a good situation for you for the time being. Certainly it seems better than a neglectful grandmaster who isn't actively challenging your son to become better and more knowledgeable. Also, something else to think about.... Your son is young enough to where it might be a good idea to let him try other sports where he can develop skills in other settings that will nonetheless translate to both TKD and life in general.

 

[Manny]

My two Mexican cents will be to try the ITF dojang, for what you wrote it seems this dojang is more to your likes and your son, as Dancingalone said if you or your son are pursuing an Olimpic TKD carrer you MUST put your son in a respetable dojnag that encourages and teaches Olimpic TKD sparring, eeven find a respectable dojang wich has a respetable sambonim that focus in WTF/Olimpic saprring and who atends to seminars and a lot fo tournaments.
In the otther hand, if your son wants to keep doing TKD as a way of life because he loves the MARTIAL ART then no matter then dojang be an ITF or WTF style.

I will put my son for a eporiod of time in the ITF dojang and see if it's worth.

Manny

 

[StudentCarl]

My two cents are that you should put your son with the best instructor for him now. Good instructors engage their students and develop them toward their potential. It sounds like your heart and your son's are leading you toward the ITF school. It also sounds like the other school is a dead end for competition as well as growth. You really answered your own question: what will your son learn if those above him at the 'other' school kick like yellow belts? The only other avenue I would encourage is to consider other arts (if your son has any openness to the idea). Always depending on the instructor, there are excellent opportunities to grow in karate, hapkido, gung fu, jiu jitsu, and other arts. In the long run, switching organizations or arts can enhance your growth in important ways.

Carl


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[Earl Weiss]

All great posts the initials don't make the system, the Instructor is what counts.

 

[Gorilla]

Train with the ITF school....go to WTF tournaments find a coach for tournaments!!!

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Train with the ITF school....go to WTF tournaments find a coach for tournaments!!!

Good advice.

Here's another option. I know a couple teenagers at a WTF club who wanted to go to a tournament but their club wasn't going to it. So they signed themselves up and put "Master Kim" for the coach in their corner - there is always a "Master Kim" at tournaments! So their entries were accepted without question. Then they just had no coach when they sparred. Their actual master was annoyed when he found out, but it makes for a funny story!

 

[WaterGal]

It sounds like neither school is going to take him to WTF-style tournaments or give him much practice in WTF sparring, so let's take that off the table. Which teacher is better? It sounds like the ITF one. So go with that guy.

Now, if you think he seriously has a chance the Olympic team, if he was getting first at the USAT qualifiers you went to and competing in the World-Class division at nationals, and you're really committed to helping him pursue that, then you shouldn't be taking him to either school. You should take him to a school with a high-level USAT coach that does that stuff. That might mean driving two hours every day, or sending him to live with relatives in another city, but that's the stuff people do to go to the Olympics.

 

[mvcoburn]

Watergal - Yes, you make a good point. We recently moved to where we are now. Where we just to live had a WTF school on every corner and provided many options for good coaches. Where we are now, coaches are limited and a distance away.

I am going to go with the ITF school for now and also continue to have him train/certified through WTF. I have made an arrangement with a good friend of mine who is also a WTF master to privately work with him and help him progress through the WTF Dans. This way he will be "certified" in both and will have the opportunity in the future to do whatever he wants to do.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Watergal gives some very good advice. At your son's age I would be more concerned with finding a good Taekwon-Do instructor, period. In your situation that sounds like the ITF instructor.

I will say that while you can't compete in the Olympics with an ITF dan certificate there are plenty of ITF competitions that your son can attend. You don't say where you are located, but I know of many tournaments that are held in the U.S. and some in Canada as well. I know there are many in England, too, to go farther afield.

Regardless of whether or not it is realistic that your son one day goes to the Olympics if it's something he really wants to do at a later date then he could get his Kukkiwon poom exchanged for a dan certificate when he reaches a certain age and be eligible, regardless of whether or not he ends up getting an ITF dan rank. Be warned, however, that the ITF only issues junior black (which are limited to 1st dan) belts to people under 13. So if he's looking to promote quickly to 2nd dan that probably won't happen.

Pax,

Chris