Isshinryu Pinan Katas?

[RobBnTX]

A local Isshinryu school teaches a couple of Pinan katas to beginning students.
Texas Isshinryu Karate Kai Homepage- Home of World Champions and Hall of Famers - Coppell, Denton, Flower Mound, Frisco, Grapevine, Plano, and Trophy Club, Texas, Karate Classes in North Texas, 900 W. Wall St., Grapevine, TX 76051, Soke Robert A. Kristensen

Just curious where their Pinan Katas originated as they are not anything like the Pinan/Heian/Pyung-ahn katas you find in Shorin-ryu, Shotokan, and Tang Soo Do. I had always read Seisan was the first kata taught in Isshinryu so I was surprised to discover they teach these two beginning katas and are named Pinan 1 and Pinan 2..

Here are links to YouTube videos that I found demonstrating the two Isshinryu Pinan katas.:

Thanks for any information!

Robert

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There are no such kata in Isshin-Ryu. However every dojo is likely to have their own 'dojo kata' which I suspect is what these are. Note they illustrate various Isshin-Ryu basic exercises. We have a similar dojo kata for beginners, but we do not call it an Isshin-Ryu kata.

Seisan is indeed often taught as the first kata in Isshin-Ryu, but not always.

 

[punisher73]

Mr. Mattocks is correct about Seisan being the first kata taught in the formal Isshin-Ryu curriculum.

But, in the IR school I visited (Long/Wheeler lineage) there were two kata created that were taught in their organization (their names escape me right now). They were very short in nature and consisted of about 90% of the upper body basics.

I have heard of other schools using the Fukyugata 1 in their schools stylized using IR techniques and stances to teach beginners before learning Seisan. Looking at the first video posted, it appears that this is their own creation and named it after the Pinans.

 

[RobBnTX]

Looking at the first video posted, it appears that this is their own creation and named it after the Pinans.

The interesting thing is that these videos are from Peaceful Valley Martial Arts, a school in New Jersey under Arcenio J. Advincula's organization, Isshinkai, while the school in this area is in the IKWA head by Tatsuo Shimabuku's son Kichiro Shimabuku and so these two schools in different organizations both teach these same beginning katas and therefore are not unique to either of these schools. I did notice that they do have a lot of the upper body basics in them.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Mr. Mattocks is correct about Seisan being the first kata taught in the formal Isshin-Ryu curriculum.

But, in the IR school I visited (Long/Wheeler lineage) there were two kata created that were taught in their organization (their names escape me right now). They were very short in nature and consisted of about 90% of the upper body basics.

I have heard of other schools using the Fukyugata 1 in their schools stylized using IR techniques and stances to teach beginners before learning Seisan. Looking at the first video posted, it appears that this is their own creation and named it after the Pinans.

Yes, I have found it is not unusual for there to be 'dojo katas' such as this. We have a few as well. One is called Taikyoku and it is a simple H pattern kata which starts with Upper Body Exercise #5 (Gedan Barai, Seiken Tsuki) and proceeds in order to Upper Body Exercise #15 (Hiji No Ato Tsuki), skipping 11 and 12 (which are repeats of 5 and 6, but with five punches). There are no kicks in this kata. We do not claim it to be part of Isshin-Ryu, but we do teach it to the kids and beginners as a 'dojo kata' only.

 

[Hammersmith]

Pinan 1 and 2 were created by Dale Jenkins, for those not familiar and if memory serves he was a student of Joel Bucholtz and Don Nagle. Who had several dojos in northern New Jersey. He passed away in 1984 from cancer but left a lasting mark on Isshinryu schools in the area. I trained in one of his schools as kid and now again under Doug King who was also part of the same lineage.

Shihan Jenkins create these as an introduction to kata to get students used to linking techniques together and they were taught after the basics and before Seisan. We still teach them for that same reason and as a tribute to Mr. Jenkins. The dojo in Texas that you mentioned is run by Mr. Kristensen who was also part of that same lineage and used to be located here in New Jersey.

The video you posted of Sensei Wargo performing Pinan who was also part of that same lineage and is also located in New Jersey. Hope this helps shed some light on what you're seeing.

THE ISSHINRYU HALL OF FAME

 

[RobBnTX]

Thank you Hammersmith for that information!

 

[TSDTexan]

Mr. Mattocks is correct about Seisan being the first kata taught in the formal Isshin-Ryu curriculum.

But, in the IR school I visited (Long/Wheeler lineage) there were two kata created that were taught in their organization (their names escape me right now). They were very short in nature and consisted of about 90% of the upper body basics.

I have heard of other schools using the Fukyugata 1 in their schools stylized using IR techniques and stances to teach beginners before learning Seisan. Looking at the first video posted, it appears that this is their own creation and named it after the Pinans.

Fukyugata 1
Also known kata Gesiki dai Ichi

 

[isshinryuronin]

I was wondering why/how I learned pinan 1-5 when I started isshinryu in 1966 and found this old thread in my search. I learned from Bob Ozman, whose only teacher was Clarence Ewing who in turn was initially taught by Don Nagle and then got his black belts from Master Shimabuku. I know Bob studied no other style and can find no trace of Sensei Ewing or Nagle having done so either. I've found no video or reference that Master Shimabuku, or his son, taught them, although it seems likely he knew them from his training with shorinryu master Kyan. So, the mystery remains without any clues how I learned pinan moves.

BTW, as shown in the OP video, it seems wrong to me to make up kata and give them the same name as existing kata.