Isshinryu legit?
- Thread starter Sanchin-E
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Victor Smith
Blue Belt
Sanchin-E,
First off I did answer your questions, it appears you're not intersted in my answers.
I don't hide who I am, is someone wants to challenge the legiticmacy of Isshinryu, fine just do so openly. I don't worry about whispering campaigns as having serious credence.
Simply whether I like it or not, long term survival is proof of legitimacy. I spend a lot of time trying to understand all of the Okinawan arts, but I don't find any of them have bearing on my own pracitces for I'm not Okinawa.
Communication requires several things:
1. Establishment of Identity of all parties
2. Clearly stating one's message, and with documentation if possible.
3. A receiving party who actually listens to the original message
4. A feedback channel to re-inforce that communication is taking place.
Frankly worrying about whether others consider Isshinryu is legitimate is irrelevant to me.
We have enough inter Isshinryu bickering as it is about the right answer.
I have experienced great Isshinryu that only did tournaments and never worked technique applicatoins.
I have experienced great Isshinryu that never did tournaments and only works technique applications.
I have experienced great Isshinryu that does everything inbetween those extremes.
I've also experienced great Goju, Shorin, Ueichi etc.
And in all of the above I've experienced those who are less than great.
In fact if you want to apply the standards of Okinawa pre 1900, there are no systems just instructors, and one very Senior Okinawan (not isshirnyu) simply states on Okinawa those who really want to study karate only want to train with an instructor iwth 50+ years training.
Systems don't last, the names do but in actuality they continually break up, reform, separate and each each evolution is a different being never the same as before.
IMVHO worrying about system legitimacy is a badly thought out point, even if Senior Okinawan's are the key. The issue is of course validity of the instructor and the students they create.
I'd be pleased to go into greater detail, but first I'd like to ask you to identify yourself.
pleasantly,
I share some of my thoughts on my own study at http://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/
First off I did answer your questions, it appears you're not intersted in my answers.
I don't hide who I am, is someone wants to challenge the legiticmacy of Isshinryu, fine just do so openly. I don't worry about whispering campaigns as having serious credence.
Simply whether I like it or not, long term survival is proof of legitimacy. I spend a lot of time trying to understand all of the Okinawan arts, but I don't find any of them have bearing on my own pracitces for I'm not Okinawa.
Communication requires several things:
1. Establishment of Identity of all parties
2. Clearly stating one's message, and with documentation if possible.
3. A receiving party who actually listens to the original message
4. A feedback channel to re-inforce that communication is taking place.
Frankly worrying about whether others consider Isshinryu is legitimate is irrelevant to me.
We have enough inter Isshinryu bickering as it is about the right answer.
I have experienced great Isshinryu that only did tournaments and never worked technique applicatoins.
I have experienced great Isshinryu that never did tournaments and only works technique applications.
I have experienced great Isshinryu that does everything inbetween those extremes.
I've also experienced great Goju, Shorin, Ueichi etc.
And in all of the above I've experienced those who are less than great.
In fact if you want to apply the standards of Okinawa pre 1900, there are no systems just instructors, and one very Senior Okinawan (not isshirnyu) simply states on Okinawa those who really want to study karate only want to train with an instructor iwth 50+ years training.
Systems don't last, the names do but in actuality they continually break up, reform, separate and each each evolution is a different being never the same as before.
IMVHO worrying about system legitimacy is a badly thought out point, even if Senior Okinawan's are the key. The issue is of course validity of the instructor and the students they create.
I'd be pleased to go into greater detail, but first I'd like to ask you to identify yourself.
pleasantly,
I share some of my thoughts on my own study at http://isshin-concentration.blogspot.com/
What about them? I said if it's effective it's legitimate. No touch KOs don't work. Chi manipulations likewise. It depends on what the cardio kick boxing instructors are claiming for it, if they say it's for getting you fit fine, if they say it's for self defence and it is, fine. A lot of so called arts claim things they don't deliever.
We just don't use the expression 'sucks, for meaning bad, we'd probably say 'well, that's pants, rubbish,tosh or poppycock.'
I think you can get too sucked into the lineage thing though, I understand wanting good instruction but dismissing others because they didn't train under the same people starts to get ridiculous. I tend to think it should really be a case of minding your own business, concentrating on your own training and leaving others to theirs. Worry about your own lineage if you must but I don't feel it necessary to question others about theirs.
If you are a beginner looking for good instruction there are many questions to be asking before you get to the lineage.
Oh good grief. Are you sure you are posting seriously? who cares where I draw a fictional line? I don't care if other people think no touch KOs work or not. It's nothing to do with me.
I do think Victor has just made a very good post you've ignored and you started this thread.
@Tez3
I'm not sure why you think that I'm not being serious. In a previous post you asked "What anyway would be an illegitimate art?" Well, apparently arts with no touch knockouts. How is that not relevant or unserious? So, there are objective criteria as to what makes a style legitimate or not, right? Or are you being unserious?
As for Victor, I'm not arguing that Isshinryu is illigitimate, so there is no there, there.
I'm not sure why you think that I'm not being serious. In a previous post you asked "What anyway would be an illegitimate art?" Well, apparently arts with no touch knockouts. How is that not relevant or unserious? So, there are objective criteria as to what makes a style legitimate or not, right? Or are you being unserious?
As for Victor, I'm not arguing that Isshinryu is illigitimate, so there is no there, there.
Let's keep the discussion on-topic, please.
If you want to discuss the Isshin-Ryu system, then by all means feel free to do so. After all, it is an authentic Karate system, and such discussion does belong in this Karate forum.
If you want to discuss other arts and methods, such as no-touch knockouts, turning invisible, etc., then it would be best to post such material in the appropriate forum, but not here.
If you want to discuss the Isshin-Ryu system, then by all means feel free to do so. After all, it is an authentic Karate system, and such discussion does belong in this Karate forum.
If you want to discuss other arts and methods, such as no-touch knockouts, turning invisible, etc., then it would be best to post such material in the appropriate forum, but not here.
Unserious?
I wasn't expecting a discussion on no touch KOs that's for sure.
You asked a question in the OP, is Isshin Ryu legit, I'm asking what on earth would make a style illegitimate by your lights if you have to ask that question.
@Tez3
You might want to re-read my first few posts.
Personally, I think that pretty much all paranormal activity is rubbish, that was just an example. Some people think that it is legitimate, just like some people think that Isshinryu is ligitimate. Some people think the opposite to both. You keep saying that nobody can judge, but obviously that isn't true, or just unserious?
You might want to re-read my first few posts.
Personally, I think that pretty much all paranormal activity is rubbish, that was just an example. Some people think that it is legitimate, just like some people think that Isshinryu is ligitimate. Some people think the opposite to both. You keep saying that nobody can judge, but obviously that isn't true, or just unserious?
If you would like, we can move this thread to General Discussion, instead. Because you chose the thread topic of "Isshinryu legit?" one would expect that such a discussion would be confined to primarily that particular subject.
Let's just keep it on track, then.
Look, I'm saying nothing of the sort, please don't try to make an argument where there is none.
If the subject is 'what makes a karate style legitimate' why cast aspersions on a particular style by asking whether it's legitimate or not.
I'm not going to post again, the discussion has changed from what it purported to be.
@ Tez3
I thought that you weren't going to post anything else? But yeah, I know, you've got nothing. I hope that you aren't a college professor or anything, critical thinking is a little lacking.
Oh, and who are the morons giving me negative rep? I don't deserve that.
I thought that you weren't going to post anything else? But yeah, I know, you've got nothing. I hope that you aren't a college professor or anything, critical thinking is a little lacking.
Oh, and who are the morons giving me negative rep? I don't deserve that.
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In the meantime, since this thread has been drifting off-topic, I'm going to conclude this post, with the official warning:
ATTENTION ALL USERS:
Please return to the original topic of the discussion of Isshinryu's legitimacy.
-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator
In the meantime, since this thread has been drifting off-topic, I'm going to conclude this post, with the official warning:
ATTENTION ALL USERS:
Please return to the original topic of the discussion of Isshinryu's legitimacy.
-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator
As this thread seems to be heading south fast, let me address a few things.
1) There are 3 Admins on this forum. You could contact us by the following:
A) PM
B) Reporting a post that is in violation of the forum rules. Just because someone disagrees with you, that isnt cause to report a post. Use the RTM feature, which is the little red triangle in the upper right hand corner of each post. It'll generate a report for the forum mods to review.
C) Contact us at [email protected]
2) Keep in mind that people are reading, not physically hearing what you and anyone else is saying. That being said, its very possible for things to be misunderstood...it happens all the time. Of course, keep in mind that it may not be the other person, but instead the wording that you are using.
3) This thread is all over the place. One minute we're talking about Isshinryu, the next Ninjutsu, the next no touch KOs. Lets pick 1 topic and stay with it as I got the impression that we were talking about Isshinryu. Perhaps you were intending to address any art, which in that case, the thread should be in the General MA section.
4) Lets keep the thread civil. Everyone agreed to the rules when they joined here. Lets stick to them please.
MJS
MT Asst. Admin
@MJS
Are you kidding me? The topic is what makes a KARATE STYLE LEGITIMATE. That was clearly explained in my first post. My subsequent post I gave my motivation to why I posted in the first place, since it seemed to be called into question. The title was a little snarky, but that was only to garner attention. The true message was cleary stated in my first post. The big clue is where I wrote "My question is" I gave specific examples. People, including you, don't seem to understand. But I don't see how I could have made it any clearer. I'm concluding the people here are morons.
Are you kidding me? The topic is what makes a KARATE STYLE LEGITIMATE. That was clearly explained in my first post. My subsequent post I gave my motivation to why I posted in the first place, since it seemed to be called into question. The title was a little snarky, but that was only to garner attention. The true message was cleary stated in my first post. The big clue is where I wrote "My question is" I gave specific examples. People, including you, don't seem to understand. But I don't see how I could have made it any clearer. I'm concluding the people here are morons.
Clearly you mislead this thread, since you mention 2 different things. And since people like you can't seem to adhere to the rules, you'll find the end results are locked threads and memberships removed.
THREAD CLOSED!!
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