Israeli Krav - Turtle Shell

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TMA17

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So many ways to skin a cat.... I like the idea behind this one. If you can move fast enough and maintain distance and someone is throwing multiple punches I think this could be effective. Move in and it sets you up for a nice elbow strike. Doesn’t show it until 4:29 mark.

I don’t know if this is something he made up or is taught in Israeli Krav.

 
Moving forward is the fastest direction we can move (and keeping balance and some control over the opponent). Head is the main target in the example and in an aggression, generally speaking. So, disregarding the exact position of the arms, I like this one.
 
Don't like it.

Looks like it would work against someone who punches and freezes but against a live fighter?

Wouldn't your opponent just need to lower his level, come up underneath your elbows, wrap his arms around you, pick you up and slam you? or slip an arm triangle on you?

And is it really an elbow strike? Looks more like a poke with the elbow.

That just looks like a technique that is gonna lead you to getting taken down.

Not to mention you are wide open for body strikes.
 
At best you are going forward into a clinch while giving your opponent double underhooks
 
This is a "common" technique found in a few different martial arts systems that really started with Keysi Fighting Method. It is also used in Defence Lab, Nudda, Crazy Monkey and TRITAC Martial Arts. Here's another video going over the details of it:

We find it very useful in combat jiu-jitsu applications where you want to close the distance and enter into close-quarters-combat range. We find it sets up a lot of "dirty boxing" strikes as well as takedowns.

In the video above, with the hand on the inside of the forearm / bicep is called "frame 2" in TRITAC or "shape 2" in Defence Lab. There are many variations of framing.

Some people find the braced arms concept "stupid" because it leaves an opening to the mid-section, but we use it mostly as an entering tool, multiple attacker defense, or just "oh sh*t' defense.

Since we use this philosophy & methodology in our system a lot, I don't feel bad sharing out YouTube channel, which has many different videos of the applications of frames:
TRITAC Academy
 
I've never seen it in Krav but I've only been doing it since February. But hey it looks good it's more effective than the basic boxing guard
 
I do see the risk of moving forward and then someone trying to take you down. Like anything else this would have to be tested in sparring. I think in a street fight though where you may be caught by a flurry of wild punches, this could break the ice if you move forward at same time possibly disrupting the guy punching you.
 
TMA17 said:
I do see the risk of moving forward and then someone trying to take you down. Like anything else this would have to be tested in sparring. I think in a street fight though where you may be caught by a flurry of wild punches, this could break the ice if you move forward at same time possibly disrupting the guy punching you.
Click to expand...
Sparring IS the answer, and is something that is a big part of what we do. Not just 1 vs 1 MMA sparring, but a variety of different sparring applications including multiple attackers, defend and protect VIP, rolling (grappling), wrestling, and more.

And in regards to moving forward to a takedowns - well that's what WE want. We excel in close quarters combat range. Due to our backgrounds in Japanese Jujitsu, BJJ and wrestling, we like being up close and personal :)
 
out of the two clips posted so far i prefer the way the first clip covers the jaw line better than the second which has the arm above the eyes and on the hair line.

the actual method i have been using for a long time is just the one arm up behind the head. i have a bias not to use the second arm to cover because i want that arm "live" and being offensive. to commit the two arms seems to me like a commitment to defense that is hard to switch gears back to offense and control.

EDIT: i should add , there is nothing new under the sun,, traditional styles do this as well
 
hoshin1600 said:
out of the two clips posted so far i prefer the way the first clip covers the jaw line better than the second which has the arm above the eyes and on the hair line.

the actual method i have been using for a long time is just the one arm up behind the head. i have a bias not to use the second arm to cover because i want that arm "live" and being offensive. to commit the two arms seems to me like a commitment to defense that is hard to switch gears back to offense and control.
Click to expand...

Just like all martial arts techniques that we all train, there are certain techniques that you will gravitate towards, and ones that I will gravitate towards. Doesn't mean either of us are "wrong". It just means that we need to discover what works for us, so that when the sh*t hits the fan, we have an instinctual response that "works".

As our students evolve we work towards what we can "split frame". This means that our hands are disconnected and allow greater freedom of mobility and countering. The difference being that a split frame isn't as solid of a structure when someone's trying to take your head off. But - as students progress they also develop other defensive skills including slips, parries, weaves, etc - and of course the most important fighting skill: footwork.
 
Sounds like a great program Matt! :)
 
TMA17 said:
So many ways to skin a cat.... I like the idea behind this one. If you can move fast enough and maintain distance and someone is throwing multiple punches I think this could be effective. Move in and it sets you up for a nice elbow strike. Doesn’t show it until 4:29 mark.

I don’t know if this is something he made up or is taught in Israeli Krav.

Click to expand...
Turtle shell defenses and several variations of it have been around for long before Krav Maga or Andy Norman utilized it.
 
TMA17 said:
So many ways to skin a cat.... I like the idea behind this one. If you can move fast enough and maintain distance and someone is throwing multiple punches I think this could be effective. Move in and it sets you up for a nice elbow strike. Doesn’t show it until 4:29 mark.

I don’t know if this is something he made up or is taught in Israeli Krav.

Click to expand...
Positions like this have their place. If someone is really throwing a flurry without a lot of control, covering up the weak head targets can help when entering. I'm not wild about a method that ties up one arm inside the other - it allows someone to (even accidentally) bind you in that way for a moment, leaving you exposed elsewhere. But nothing is ever perfect. I teach a looser version of a frame (not connected to the head) that solves those problems, but is a bit more exposed to head strikes while being somewhat better at protecting other areas (including takedowns). Everything's a compromise. I don't particularly like the compromises in this approach.
 
Jitsers used to be mad keen on this. John will did a video on it somewhere.

Haven't seen it in a while.
 
We like and use this - similar, actually - both in LEO training and as part of what we do in my art, both as part of an Iron Wall, and in defeating multiple opponents.

I don't particularly like the second arm as part of it though. And I prefer the elbowing arm in a different position, I won't cup my hand behind my neck, we use the hand/palm beside the ear, it makes the attacking elbow longer by several inches. It also allows the hand to be more active reflex or follow up wise.

The problem with the video clip, in my opinion, is it's only shown slowly. There's no real demonstration to how a blitz changes the dynamics of what the opponent can do. And when doing it, it's a full on blitz forward.

"Iron Wall" as we call it, and I don't remember where that term originally came from, consists of that elbow position, the opposite knee coming up the middle as a strike, the opposite hand in a palm heel strike/push to the front of the ribs, and the head lowered into a head butt. The time - is the same time frame as any forward step/blitz, that is One Beat. It is used to enter, to get into the kitchen. [as we used to say]

I love using this wall against an opponent who's raining punch combinations, or thinks he's going to. You have to gear up to properly to train it, though. Motorcycle helmets with a face shield are good, and safety kick head gear for the blitzer for the head butt part of it.

It's my favorite entry. I love entries.

As for "can't the opponent do this or that?" Yes. That's why it's called a fight. :)
 
Matt Bryers said:
Oss - thanks bro. I appreciate. If you are curious to see more of what it is, and what we do, we put A LOT of videos up on our YouTube Channel:
TRITAC Academy

Not trying to be spammy, just if you're interested :)
Click to expand...

i will be checking them out. :)
where about's in Connecticut are you? im right up RT84 in Mass. i need work on my ground game.
 
This also is what inspired kung fu Wang's rhino guard.
 
I have been training off and on with Southnarc since 2002, and have been working with the default position during all that time.
 
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