Who, us? A weakness in us? The practitioners?......nah, we be Gods and tough guys.
That's why all of us who are exceptional Martial Artist and great fighters are all of the same style. We just be a band of bad mother fuzzekers brothers, lovers and thieves. Who happen to run wild on da internet.
Giggles.
That's why all of us who are exceptional Martial Artist and great fighters are all of the same style. We just be a band of bad mother fuzzekers brothers, lovers and thieves. Who happen to run wild on da internet.
Giggles.
Not 100% sure what you're asking there, but here's the answer to my interpretation of the question:
I believe it was Bruce Lee that talked about how since each person is different, they all should create the art that's best for them (extreme paraphrasing since I couldn't find the original quote/talk). To follow this line of thought, if you are not the right person for a certain art, you wouldn't be able to use it as well. That's both a fault of you and a fault of the art. For instance: I am short, and dont have long legs, so I couldn't make the best use of TKD. This is a weakness in myself, but if you're looking for the 'best' art, it's a weakness for TKD because it doesn't apply to everyone. To take this one step forward/backwards, everyone has a 'perfect art' for them that matches their personal style and body, even if it hasn't been created yet (once again like Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do) but if someone else tries to use that 'perfect art', there will be weaknesses that show up that the practitioner may not be able to overcome.
I am in no way an expert on JKD or Bruce Lee, so it is possible I superimposed my philosophy on him. I don't believe I did, but if I did can someone please correct me/explain what his philosophy is, since I feel like it will still be relevant.
I believe it was Bruce Lee that talked about how since each person is different, they all should create the art that's best for them (extreme paraphrasing since I couldn't find the original quote/talk). To follow this line of thought, if you are not the right person for a certain art, you wouldn't be able to use it as well. That's both a fault of you and a fault of the art. For instance: I am short, and dont have long legs, so I couldn't make the best use of TKD. This is a weakness in myself, but if you're looking for the 'best' art, it's a weakness for TKD because it doesn't apply to everyone. To take this one step forward/backwards, everyone has a 'perfect art' for them that matches their personal style and body, even if it hasn't been created yet (once again like Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do) but if someone else tries to use that 'perfect art', there will be weaknesses that show up that the practitioner may not be able to overcome.
I am in no way an expert on JKD or Bruce Lee, so it is possible I superimposed my philosophy on him. I don't believe I did, but if I did can someone please correct me/explain what his philosophy is, since I feel like it will still be relevant.
Danny T
Senior Master
Yes and Yes.
hoshin1600
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Yes there are weeknesses in arts. It is equally true there are weeknesses in people. Even if there was an art form out there like Ameri-do-te, best of all worst of none, no single person could master it. There just isn't that many hours in a life time.
You have to pick and choose what's important to you. And what is important to you will change over time.
You have to pick and choose what's important to you. And what is important to you will change over time.
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There are many people who believe that there is a "best martial art" out there (it's usually the one they practice.) I do not believe that a best one exists, because martial arts are so diverse and each style takes more than a life time to truly master. My question was based on the fact that there are extraordinary fighters in every style, that could compete against other extraordinary fighter in different styles. Every single person has weaknesses unique to them, but is it the style that has a weakness, or is it the person?
You used TKD as an example, TKD's stereotypical weaknesses are A) can't stand a chance against boxing and B) no ground game.So, what happens if a TKD practitioner defeats a world champion boxer and a World Champion grappling artist in a NHB fight. That doesn't prove that TKD is better, but the fighter beat two opponents that each were world class level practitioners of TKD's weaknesses. So, is it the art or the person that has the weaknesses?
As far as the CMA, the
- northern CMA has weakness to "close".
- southern CMA has weakness to "open".
I have no doubt that many arts have weaknesses. However, long before I run into a flaw in the system I study, I run into a flaw in myself. I would always tend to first suspect the issue is with myself before assuming the issue is with the system.
My Dad is a now (semi) retired scientist who spent years working for NASA studying (among other things) human factors, aviation accidents, and the causes of pilot error.
One point he makes is that if you have a system that depends on a human being doing everything perfectly all the time, that relies on the plusses of the human and fails to take into account the minuses it is the system that has erred, not the person.
I think this can apply to martial arts as well. Almost any technique and any martial art can work under the right circumstances especially if you work hard enough at it. However if the art requires an unreasonable degree of perfection from the practitioner in order to be effective, then it is probably fair to call that a weakness of the system.
One point he makes is that if you have a system that depends on a human being doing everything perfectly all the time, that relies on the plusses of the human and fails to take into account the minuses it is the system that has erred, not the person.
I think this can apply to martial arts as well. Almost any technique and any martial art can work under the right circumstances especially if you work hard enough at it. However if the art requires an unreasonable degree of perfection from the practitioner in order to be effective, then it is probably fair to call that a weakness of the system.
lklawson
Grandmaster
Question too vague. Define "weakness" in both contexts, please.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
This.
The weakness exists in the style. For example, the wrestler expose his head for punching is the weakness for wrestling. Sometime "sport" guys may play too much "sport" and forget about "combat". To put your hands in front of your knees may prevent leg/legs shooting. It doesn't prevent head punching. Because the "sport" rule, you develop bad habit. That's your style weakness and not your weakness.
Since all those problems can be removed in MMA, this is why wrestling may be the starting point, but the MMA should be the ending point.
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If you are holding a hammer everything starts to look like a nail, no matter how bad you are at swinging the hammer.
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90% of the time the weakness is going to be in the practitioner. The practitioner is the one who had to determine what techniques will be used and when they will be used. The techniques are only as good as the practitioner's ability to use them. If the practitioner hasn't trained or conditioned properly then the technique will fail him/her.
Most of the martial artist that we see doing horrible in fights is due to the practitioner because you can find someone else who trains in the same system who does exceptionally better. It's really no difference than what goes on in life. The only down fall to some of the martial arts out there is that the students test their ability to use a technique in house, when they really should be testing their ability to use a technique outside of their school.
Good points Tony.. can you say please which art do you feel require unreasonable degree of perfection from the practitioner in order to be effective? thank you.. oh and please ask your Dad for me if there is like an ET/Roswell cover up thing going on over there??
xx
Area 51 is a cover up for area 52. All secret stuff happens at area 52, and if you want to check it out, you are as close to it as we are.Good points Tony.. can you say please which art do you feel require unreasonable degree of perfection from the practitioner in order to be effective? thank you.. oh and please ask your Dad for me if there is like an ET/Roswell cover up thing going on over there??
I don't want to call out any arts by name. For one thing, any art that I actually trained long enough to speak authoritatively on wouldn't be one that I thought had that flaw. For another, the method of teaching an art can make a big difference and that can vary from school to school.
In general, I would say that if a martial art requires 10+ years of dedicated study to be used effectively, then it might be making unreasonable demands on the practitioner.
More specifically, I would say that an art which fails to degrade gracefully has problems. This is a concept from engineering - the idea that when part of a system fails, the whole thing shouldn't fall apart. If I can function with a proficiency level of 10 in the dojo, but then I get in a real fight and under pressure I lose 30% of my technical details, then I should still be fighting with a proficiency level of around 7. If I can't use my art effectively at all when I've lost that much of my technique in an adrenaline dump, then there's an issue and it's not just my fault as a practitioner.
oh and please ask your Dad for me if there is like an ET/Roswell cover up thing going on over there??
My Dad studied human factors. Alien factors is a whole different department.
Like Danny said, I think it's both. I study American Karate. We have tons of weaknesses. We don't box enough anymore, we don't fight as much as we used to, we don't train standing control techniques as much as I think we should, our throws suck compared to a lot of other styles, our take downs are okay but we don't train take down defense as much as I think we should, we don't have Kata. But it seems to work okay. It works better for some than others, maybe because some put more time in.
And people are different. Example - my friend Dennis was one of six brothers born a year apart, all hockey players from a tough neighborhood. He already knew how to fight before he ever walked into my dojo. He took everything taught him and worked it to death, became a really good Martial Artist. Just like he would have done if he had walked into any of your dojos, regardless of the style. (And Martial Arts really calmed him down, thank God)
On the flip side - I've met some people that I don't think could have advanced in any school that any of us here train in. They just didn't have the intangibles, the drive, the work ethic, whatever. As much as I'd like to think differently, Martial Arts ain't for everyone. It's really hard work.
And people are different. Example - my friend Dennis was one of six brothers born a year apart, all hockey players from a tough neighborhood. He already knew how to fight before he ever walked into my dojo. He took everything taught him and worked it to death, became a really good Martial Artist. Just like he would have done if he had walked into any of your dojos, regardless of the style. (And Martial Arts really calmed him down, thank God)
On the flip side - I've met some people that I don't think could have advanced in any school that any of us here train in. They just didn't have the intangibles, the drive, the work ethic, whatever. As much as I'd like to think differently, Martial Arts ain't for everyone. It's really hard work.
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