I would agree with your accusation if it was that only premium classes can spar. I would also agree with your accusation if it was only after a few years (or similar; after red/brown belt) that you could spar.
ffs, that was literally what the original point I made was. I even put the "it costs more" part in bold letters.
Which one is accurate? Do you typically have standout students, or do you have a bunch of "not-A+" students?
The great thing about the english language are all of the nuances, such as the word "typically" when applied to a sentence. You see if you put the two literal quote mines of yours together you can see that what I was saying is that most of our students
typically (there is that nuanced word again meaning many but not all) become A+ students over time but many of them don't start that way. Regardless, if I want to train some one just to become more coordinated and have better overall athleticism I don't market it as self defense, we have a different class for that.
Where are the goalposts? Is it immediate? Is it years? Is it 3 months?
If you are asking me to define immediate, I would say within the first week. This is specifically pressure testing given drills through sparring exercises, which is different than free sparring. If done diligently should lead to being able to free spar against other students safely within about 3 months.
Compliant drills help you build form. You can start with compliant drills and work your way up to non-compliant sparring.
I agree, compliant drills help understand the basics of what you are doing, but why the hell would it take 4 months to pressure test these methods? Work on one thing until it works, pressure testing can then happen within the first week for that one thing.
You're the one accusing schools that are different from you of being a scam. That's a pretty bold accusation that shouldn't be made lightly. Yet, your definition of what is a scam changes from post to post, or even sentence-to-sentence.
My definition doesn't change at all, you missed the point and I stand by my accusation. It's not that they are "different" it's that they are dishonest be it intentionally or not. If you make people wait to test what they are learning and then charge them extra for it you are running a scam and are NOT teaching self defense. That's been consistently my point through all of this
If you really have 0% injuries (Post #24) in 30+ years (Post #33), I would love to know how you teach white belts of all ages how to safely spar on day 1, and have had no injuries.
Where are you located? I would be more than willing to give you a free seminar on this. Yeah injuries happen but, so far, it's never been when teaching beginners to spar. If it is an injury from sparring it's always been after they have been sparring for a few months or so and try something new and completely mess it up. Having 0% rate of injuries teaching beginners how to spar is not the same as just claiming 0% rate of injuries. While we don't get frequent injuries it is inevitable as you said. This is also why beginners are limited on what they can use in free sparring against other beginners. for example they can only test takedowns and submissions on black belts that know how to breakfall and when to tap but beginners can strike any target zone above the belt including the side of the head and forehead pad against other beginners.
Overall you have undoubtedly missed the original point I was making, which is dishonest marketing promoting a potentially dangerous false sense of security in students. If you promote your TKD training as "self defense" on day one but don't test it until several belts later
and/or charge another large fee for it then you are running a scam and misleading students into believing that they have the capability to fight off an attacker when there is no way for them to have any idea if they actually can. Some people are natural fighters, but most are not and if they have never had someone throw a punch at them with intent to harm then they are gonna get rocked when they falsely believe they can fight and stand their ground due to false confidence when they should have run. It's all about honest marketing and not lying to get ahead. Don't tell people you are teaching them to fight when you don't actually let them try it. My dojang has recently acquired 2 new students from a different local dojang that was nothing more than a belt factory money machine. One student was an "orange belt" which from what they told me was roughly 7th gup with about 10 months training (they never used gup just belt colors) The other was a white belt, about a months training. they are 16 years old 11 years. Neither of them had ever sparred or tested their technique against a somewhat non-compliant opponent but both of them believed they could fight off an attacker, even one bigger than them, because they were told what they were learning at the belt mill dojang was self defense. At the other school you couldn't spar unless you paid for the "masters class" and that was only allowed to "green belt" and up. Their first night trialing our school, they borrowed some sparring gear and sparred for the first time. They had a lot of fun doing it but more importantly gained valuable insight into the reality of a physical conflict that they didn't previously have. they essentially learned they had been lied to for the entirety of their training. They signed up for our TMA class, which for adults (16+) includes 1 class per week dedicated to nothing but practical applications and sparring. When training younger kids (5-13), we never market it as self defense for what I hope is obvious reasons so when they spar it's essentially a light game of tag using punches and kicks.
If you genuinely believe that it is okay to market a TKD program as "self defense" but go months without ever testing it then you are doing your student's a disservice and are not honest in your marketing. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say this is a simple misunderstanding of terms because you seem like a reasonable individual.
My invitation to you to visit my dojang to show you how we teach sparring to beginners and share ideas is a sincere and genuine one so feel free to message me if you are actually interested and not just speaking in hyperbole.