Is Self Defense A Human Right? The UN Doesn't Think So.........

[Shotgun Buddha]

Sorry, I was formulating another response before I saw your "provide examples" response, and well, you know...

Your question opens up pages and pages worth of debate and explination, of which I sadly don't have time for right now. I actually have to get off-line and do some work that will take me away from the computer again. But, luckily these explinations and arguments have already been formulated here on MT. I think it would be good to read those, and then bring any points of contention you have up for debate.

Here is a good one which brought up your exact questions:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33604&highlight=gun+control

Take care!

C.

No problem, I'll get back to you on it. I just happen to feel fire-arms as an issue tend to be personalised and politicized rather than dealt with as a social issue in the States.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

Although some of mine were here before them

 

[Cruentus]

Not disputing in anyway that China is dodgy. But in some countries the emphasis on social order has a number of positive results. I would consider the best approach obviously a balancing of the two, the good of society versus the good of the individual. In Germany I would agree that the emphasis tends to be on social order, but its currently beneficial. Very nice country to live in.

Currently, Germany is very nice. But I am afraid that we disagree on ideologies, however.

No problem, I'll get back to you on it. I just happen to feel fire-arms as an issue tend to be personalised and politicized rather than dealt with as a social issue in the States.

Definatily agree on that! Politicized is the bigger problem...

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Currently, Germany is very nice. But I am afraid that we disagree on ideologies, however.

Nothing wrong with that, probably more a result of background than anything else.

Definatily agree on that! Politicized is the bigger problem...

Yep, social issues should be treated as such. Dragging them into political agendas seems to be one of the primary reasons those issues aren't dealt with, they merely become more and more convoluted.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

And there's a reason mine stayed

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I don't believe the language in the quoted paragraph says anything other than that.



P.S. and I note the Original Poster has updated his location to slur the cradle of American liberty.
The irony is just too think. "People's Republic of Massachusettstan, USA", indeed.

And you wonder why fewer and fewer people seem to wanna talk to you.

Well, since none of the mod staff have gotten on your *** for this deliberate personal attack and attempt at a thread hijack, I don't suppose they'll care if I do a little hijack of my own( it is, after all, my thread).

For one thing, maybe you don't understand the concept of sarcastic humor--If I did not believe in "American Liberty" I would not be wearing its flag on TWO uniforms as I do. I just spent all of Saturday in uniform, for no money and no benefit, in support of soldiers about to deploy abroad, helping them through the legal, medical and dental paperwork process, helping them make out wills, and the three of us who showed up from MASG shaved about 5-6 hours of work off of the regular National Guard's schedule doing some of the most important things you can do for a soldier.

Next week, even though it isn't a scheduled drill date, I may be called there again to welcome returning soldiers BACK. For no money, and no benefit other than to do what I can for those troops in time of war.

Whenever a military police battalion needs training, I and my unit provide the "victims" "witnesses" and "Bodies".

Whenever an infantry battalion needs training, we provide the "enemy".

This is what my unit does--for no pay, no benefits other than to do what we can for those troops to help them come back alive.

Which in turn begs the question, since you are so eager to open your mouth to me about "American liberty"--just exactly what the hell have *you* done lately in its name?


What do *you* wear your US flag on? I'm guessing nothing but maybe your gi, depending on your Kenpo school.


For a second thing, you can take it from me that the way MA was at the Revolution when it actually WAS the "cradle of American liberty" and the way MA is now, are nothing alike. At all. But then, what do I know? I've only lived here all my life. But I don't know how much longer that's gonna last.

For the third thing, That has been in my location bar since a year and a half ago when I first joined, so either way, Mike, the joke's on you.


See I can't understand why it is that anytime I try to talk to you, it has to become all about how smart, and clever and awesome you believe yourself to be and it must always turn personal for you.

So I'm not gonna waste anymore time trying to figure you out when there are others with whom it is more productive to talk, and who also understand there are more important things in life than the self.

Welcome to my Ignore list, Mike.

 

[exile]

Second and FINAL warning!​

[playnice]Bob Levine[/playnice]

 

[CoryKS]

AFAIC, this is Reason #6,145 in the list of why the increasingly-misnamed United Nations has outlived whatever usefulness it ever provided.

 

[newGuy12]

AFAIC, this is Reason #6,145 in the list of why the increasingly-misnamed United Nations has outlived whatever usefulness it ever provided.

What's really bad is that as soon as the North American Treaty is in place, and the US looses its sovereignty, we will answer more an more to the UN.

The US was good as long as it lasted though. I'm glad that I saw it while it was in full swing.

 

[Cruentus]

What's really bad is that as soon as the North American Treaty is in place, and the US looses its sovereignty, we will answer more an more to the UN.

The US was good as long as it lasted though. I'm glad that I saw it while it was in full swing.

Well, we need to be sure that we vote people in who will fight for our American values so that doesn't actually occur. I am not a big Bush supporter, and I don't like his foreign policy decisions as a whole, but I do admire the fact that his administration consistantly stood up for us against the UN (although, it wasn't always appropriate). I hope that our next adminstration will have the same audacity.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Second and FINAL warning!​

[playnice]Bob Levine[/playnice]

My bad. I should have behaved a bit better but you understand I couldn't let that one go.

There are very few things more sobering than having to assist 120+ soldiers through lines and up and down stairs to get their medical, dental, and legal paperwork in order prior to deployment, and seeing these boys and girls some of them no older than 17, 18 years old, a few of them haven't even had basic training yet, I'm getting names in the list with ranks below PVT( PV2( pre-completion of basic) or CDT (ROTC cadet), and having them come to me or another MASG comrade for assistance and having to escort them to the line for the legal paperwork and watch the JAG officers help these 17 and 18 year old boys and girls write their wills, to give one perspective on who and what is worth one's time in the big scheme of things.

But I've just fixed things so there is no more issue.

 

[qwksilver61]

OK. I that be the case "do unto others,then split"

 

[Trent]

That paragraph is a thinly veiled framework for fascism-- nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Guardian]

I must say after serving 20 years in the Air Force and defending this countries right to liberty from all. I must admit though the times look alittle more gloomy folks, there is a silver lining at the end, we might see harder times ahead (as with any growing pains), but we will survive and we will once again regain/keep that edge that we've always had, because we value something alot of other countries can only dream of and when push comes to shove, it's still there and that's "Freedom", it can't be taken, it can't be surpressed and it definately will always be there in one fashion or form.

My personal view on the UN is as stated in another post, they have outlived their usefulness and it's time for them to find another home in another country.

 

[GBlues]

This is what I think. I think that I don't know much at all about europe, and I don't care to. I think I don't know very much at all about a lot of countries, and it's not my job, or duty to understand there laws or there situations because I don't live there. I live in America. I think it's my job to know the laws in my state where I live in America so that I can be a law abiding citizen. I don't live in other countries, I don't stick my nose in there affairs it's none of my business. I think the same applies to people who try to speak to Americans about the affairs that go on over here. It's none of your business. You foriegners that think gun control is a great thing. Well, good for you, you live in a country where you have it, and apparently those of you that agree with it, that's where you live. I and many other Americans think we don't need to have our guns taken away from law abiding citizens that don't go out and shoot people for no reason. So in essence if you don't live here, mind your own damned business. Stop telling us how we should live our lives. I'm sick of hearing how great it is in your country when on a regular basis, people are still being shot, knifed, and mugged in your countries. Amercians can't even walk the streets in some of your countries without the fear of being attacked or mugged, or kidnapped. Yeah, gun control did you guys a lot of freaking good didn't it. I'm tired of hearing about everybody else's rights, and everbody in the world has the right to step on my rights, because they don't like the way I or many others may live. Somebody is going to tell me that I don't have the right to defend myself when attacked because I can't violate the rights of the person that is assaulting me is total b.s. You folks that are arguing that it's not, know that it is. The second somebody attacks me he has lost his right to not be violated in the most viscious manner that I can give it in. Period. If you don't like that, well in my mind you can shut the hell up, and stay in your country and hope to god, when your attacked the cops will be there in time to save your ***. I on the other hand, am not going to count it.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and you'll find your liberty.

We weren't "allowed" to defend ourselves between k-12 but we figured &#%& that and protected ourselves anyway. The right to keep and bear arms relies on your faith in general human integrity. I've seen few examples of people I'd trust with a gun. One of the few people I did trust has shown me how poor my character judgement is. Not that I'm a good judge of character but many people flatter themselves, especially regarding self-control.

This is a politically polar thread either way, IMO and any opinion agitates sensitivities.

 

[K-man]

I did read the document. The document seems to advocate gun control, not the banning or prohibiting of fire-arms. As I live outside of the US, could you explain why the concept of gun control seems so unreasonable? I would have thought a basic background check, and then weapon safety instruction, would be logical steps?

This question was raised back in the thread and seemingly ignored. Any comments?

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Well the first problem that stands out to me is that anyone actually takes the useless nations....ermm united nations seriously. That is most corrupt pile of crap organization on the planet, worthless for the United States.

 

[Tez3]

This is what I think. I think that I don't know much at all about europe, and I don't care to. I think I don't know very much at all about a lot of countries, and it's not my job, or duty to understand there laws or there situations because I don't live there. I live in America. I think it's my job to know the laws in my state where I live in America so that I can be a law abiding citizen. I don't live in other countries, I don't stick my nose in there affairs it's none of my business. I think the same applies to people who try to speak to Americans about the affairs that go on over here. It's none of your business. You foriegners that think gun control is a great thing. Well, good for you, you live in a country where you have it, and apparently those of you that agree with it, that's where you live. I and many other Americans think we don't need to have our guns taken away from law abiding citizens that don't go out and shoot people for no reason. So in essence if you don't live here, mind your own damned business. Stop telling us how we should live our lives. I'm sick of hearing how great it is in your country when on a regular basis, people are still being shot, knifed, and mugged in your countries. Amercians can't even walk the streets in some of your countries without the fear of being attacked or mugged, or kidnapped. Yeah, gun control did you guys a lot of freaking good didn't it. I'm tired of hearing about everybody else's rights, and everbody in the world has the right to step on my rights, because they don't like the way I or many others may live. Somebody is going to tell me that I don't have the right to defend myself when attacked because I can't violate the rights of the person that is assaulting me is total b.s. You folks that are arguing that it's not, know that it is. The second somebody attacks me he has lost his right to not be violated in the most viscious manner that I can give it in. Period. If you don't like that, well in my mind you can shut the hell up, and stay in your country and hope to god, when your attacked the cops will be there in time to save your ***. I on the other hand, am not going to count it.

Who exactly is this rant aimed at?

 

[GBlues]

Who exactly is this rant aimed at?

Anybody and everybody from another country who thinks that we shouldn't have our firearms because they allowed their's to be taken away. Mainly at the united nations and the countries that decided to create such a piece of crap as that which has been shown here on this thread. I was once asked if I was prejudiced, and I told the honest truth, no sir, I hate everybody equally. So take your pick on who it's aimed at.