is political correctness killing martial arts?

[sparks110972]

i find that as a martial artist i see a lot of changes in how techniques are done and applied not in my own art but in others(i practice a classical martial art) how do other instructors view this butchery of the arts to make everything "safer" and is it wrong? i think it is criminal and a shame on all instructors who practice political correctness. let me know

 

[Kensai]

Guess it depends on the art, school, instructor, and attitudes of the students therein. In my class, my sifu teaches purely incapacitating strikes, to throat, groin, face/nose/jaw etc. No locks to "disable", or immobilise an attacker. So in that sense, no, it isn't watered down. However, there are occasions when perhaps that kind of attitude is unrequired, and a different set of responses are required.

I think the MA, be they TMA, MMA, CMA, FMA, or YMCA, it matters not. They predate the concept of PC'ness, and will certainly outlive it. Exactly how, is another matter, there's no reading the future regardless of what some will tell you. Just my view.

 

[Andrew Green]

There's lots of PC stuff going around. "All arts are equal", "It's not the art it's the artist" being a very common one. Which is nonsense.

Ok, maybe no single art is the best, and it is hard to draw comparrisons, unless you give a goal.

Making things "safer" is neccessary. Safer the better, otherwise you get injuries and possibly lawsuits, both of which impede good training.

Watering down to the extreme, well, thats fine too, providing there is some honesty about what is being done. I can't start a touch football team and claim to be training them for the pro-leagues. But lots of people want/prefer the "softer" method, and thats fine. Let them do it.

PC so often seems to be a stand in word for "misleading" and that I don't buy. Do whatever you want, teach whatever you want, just be honest about what you are teaching, no claiming "too deadly, so no sparring" no claiming "all arts are equal, are invented kata will take you to the top of the UFC if you are a good enough athlete and train hard enough."

 

[matt.m]

I know what you are talking about. It makes me want to yak personally. I spent 5 yrs. in the Marines. If I learned one thing is this: In a fight there are no rules and people really do want to hurt you.

My GM teaches no nonsense kind of approach. Thank god for the small blessings.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Thread moved to the General Martial Arts area

I think it will generate more posts here

sheldon bedell
mt mod

 

[JBrainard]

To answer the original question, not in my experience. It obviously depends on the style, but more so I believe it depends on the teacher. I once was taking a competition geared wing chun class but the teacher was also a 2nd? degree black belt in one of those chinese "war arts." So when questions about self defence came up, he would hep us to ways to really f up an attacker. How to rupture someone's bladder was my fave.

 

[beau_safken]

Depends on your school and teacher...Well that pretty much sums it up.

Mcdojo's are more PC because they are daycare centers
Real schools...not so much...

 

[tradrockrat]

Well I'm not sure what is meant by PC, but if you mean altering techniques to make them less lethal, then yes I hate that because it shows an ignorance of the art. There are ALWAYS non-lethal techniques available, even if it just means altering your intended target. It shows a huge lack of trust in your students to leave out these aspects of martial training. Obviously, while training you try not to kill your partner...it is obvious, isn't it????

If you mean - as Andrew Green states - the tendency to say all things are equal - I think that is kind of silly as well, but I for one honestly believe that there is a specific MA out there for everyone and that you will be better at that art than at any others. I also believe that the person really does make the art effective, though I wholeheartedly agree that you need to qualify that statement with what exactly it is effective in. If you're going to compete in the olympics in TKD, you might not want to train with me.

 

[Fluffy]

It gets worse and worse every year.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have never been politicly correct so i don't think it has changed how I teach

Trying to keep the school open and making money may have changed my views on teaching kids but when i deal with adults I teach the way i want and they can stay or go depending on how they feel about what I say and teach

 

[Xue Sheng]

is political correctness killing martial arts?

mmmmmmmmmmmmm could be.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Yes. Just the same as it's destroying everything else it touches.

 

[hongkongfooey]

Yes. Just the same as it's destroying everything else it touches.

Give that man a cigar. Just don't smoke it! The PC police will get ya!

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm not so sure I would call it "Political Correctness". I do think that the buisness side of martial arts can often be detrimental to the arts. I have a lot of respect for you school owners who try really hard to maintain the integrity in your training and teaching, while running a commercial school. I understand it's a difficult balance to walk, and a lot of places don't do a good job with this and that is what I think is a problem.

I also think there are a lot of ego problems in the martial arts that creates a lot of problems. Ego maniacs who need to be a grandmaster, and need to create a "new" style and be soke, and whatnot. I think it is all about the need for power and control over others, which really boils down to money and business run amok.

In my opinion, many of the problems and issues being cited by the others here really come back to these couple of points.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not so sure I would call it "Political Correctness". I do think that the buisness side of martial arts can often be detrimental to the arts. I have a lot of respect for you school owners who try really hard to maintain the integrity in your training and teaching, while running a commercial school. I understand it's a difficult balance to walk, and a lot of places don't do a good job with this and that is what I think is a problem.

I also think there are a lot of ego problems in the martial arts that creates a lot of problems. Ego maniacs who need to be a grandmaster, and need to create a "new" style and be soke, and whatnot. I think it is all about the need for power and control over others, which really boils down to money and business run amok.

In my opinion, many of the problems and issues being cited by the others here really come back to these couple of points.

Good points.

Seeing as I lost a good Tai Chi school to both of these you would have think I wouls have mentioned it here.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

My old instructor would not allow me to say or do certain things to the point of not allowing me to tell a black belt they were wrong and rip them when they told me I taught them wrong.

Now that I am no longer under his so-called guidance I have been direct again and things are working out much better.

 

[Silverwing]

Political correctness in the martial arts and you...

When training in the martial arts you must keep in mind that when the arts were first formed they existed for war. Since the world we live in today is peaceful and there is no war we do not need to learn about real fighting. Instead you will learn punches and kicks with the purpose of looking really cool, but be careful, you may find an instructor who teaches you to punch and kick with the purpose of striking another person. This type of instructor is probably an anarchist who wants to overthrow the duly elected/enforced and competent government of your country...


That being said... yes. Maybe not killing, but hampering at the very least.

 

[Don Roley]

I don't know if this qualifies as PC, but the whole attitude of coddling people and being afraid of hurting their feelings is something that makes me want to teach only in secret when I return to America.

Where I am, the teacher coming over to you and telling you that you are doing something wrong is a blessing. There are things you can't tell you are doing wrong. So for the teacher to show you them instead of patting you on the back and letting you stay ignorant of your problems is a favor.

And sometimes they need to push you. When you think you are doing fine, but they show you that you are not and tell you that you will never get anywhere unless you change, that is a blessing. But I am sure that Tommy's mommy would scream bloody murder if you tried doing this with her little angel.

Oh, and the idea that an art has to be 'accessable' to everyone. No, I only want certain types of students. I don't care how much someone wants to study under me in what I know- if I don't think they would make a good student I don't want to waste my time on them. But that would probably get me sued for discrimination back in the states. Hence my considering only teaching in secret when I move back.

 

[Silverwing]

Unlike my last comment this one is absolutely satire free:
I have to say I agree with that absolutely. My instructor tonight at class told us that he wishes he could still hit us with a training stick for having the wrong stance. That would make training so much... I don't want to say easier but that's the best I can come up with. Sadly YMCAs don't allow that...

 

[Dark]

i find that as a martial artist i see a lot of changes in how techniques are done and applied not in my own art but in others(i practice a classical martial art) how do other instructors view this butchery of the arts to make everything "safer" and is it wrong? i think it is criminal and a shame on all instructors who practice political correctness. let me know

Political correctness is a fancy way for saying something I really can't on the forum, say I'll leave it a *meow* There is a saying "Don't mistake kindness for weakness..." that applies in two ways for martial artists. The first is simply that a gentle hand can easily be mistaken for a weak touch.

In the exact opposite of above statement I guess "Don't mistake weakness for kindness..." Too much coddling and softness can be a sign of lack of over all skill and ability. Ultimately its all up to the individual, but as with most "tough guys" if they talk big and act small its weakness.

Now my personal opinion is that the PC movement has ruined the general society, because god forbid you hurt someone's feelings and tell them the truth...