Is it weird to train in a second art?

[AdrenalineJunky]

Okay, So I went to my Muay Thai class yesterday, and the instructor didn't show up (I work with his wife, so I'm sure he'll get it, j/k). So they called another instructor who does Progressive Fighting System. It was a great work out, but he had us doing things that, as a thai fighter, I would never do in a fight. He had us doing "flow" drills, which were these complex (remember the simplicity of MT) drawn-out moves meant to do this or that and put the opponent down. The whole time i"m thinking: two elbows, a knee, push, then round kick; or clinch, three knees, heel trip= same result, less hassle.

Example: He had us dodge to the outside of a cross, bat the arm w/left hand and come over the opponents arm with a cross. . .a cross that would stun an opponent at best. Why a cross, when a hook or an uppercut would, not only be a possible ko punch, but would also set you up for a knee or a round kick? Also, he would say that we were going to do some thai drills. . .I've never seen anything like what we did in my thai classes.

I can't help but feel like I'm being a little superficial, and I don't want to be that way. Do I just need time to adjust? The same guy does JKD next week, and I was thinking about going, but now I'm wondering if I should just stick to Muay Thai.

Thanks in advance all, for your wisdom.

AJ

 

[OUMoose]

It's all in what you feel comfortable with. If what he's showing just isn't meshing well with what you like, then just politely tell your instructor so, and train on your own at home or something. Exposure to new stuff can be enlightening, though, as it shows you other schools of thought.

Not sure if that helps or not, but just an opinion. :asian:

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Maybe it's just feeling like a newbie again. Also, Muay Thai is a pretty hard-core, basic art where strikes are concerned, so a lot of the other stuff seems kind of redundant. If you can't tell, I'm trying to talk myself into trying the JKD, and want to know if anyone else felt weird when they started picking up a new system.

Thanks. AJ

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I train in JKD, and have not taken any Muay Thai classes, although they are hugely popular classes.

All I can say is, if you are much more comfortable in one style, or it "works" for you, that's great, stick with it. I enjoy a bit of cross-training, because even when I feel like an idiot, it's giving me new things to think about, new tactics, a new approach.

I really like JKD, so I'd recommend it, if you think it would be enjoyable to do something fairly different.

 

[terryl965]

Stay with the one that makes the most sense to you, no one person can give you info. that your body can't give you .... If you are more comfy with Thai stay.... GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[Flatlander]

Though I haven't trained specifically under a muay thai instructor, I have been exposed to some of their ways of movement. I have trained in JKD. I think the two arts compliment each other nicely. Try the JKD, and see what you think. If you find it too foreign, or if you're uncomfortable with the movement style, don't worry about it. I think you'll like it though. Like Muay Thai, it's very direct, and alive. Keep in mind also that there are many different ways JKD is being done depending upon the history of that particular instructor. If they have a previous 'root art', you'll find their JKD flavoured with those principles. If JKD is their root, then it should have more of a Kung Fu taste. Either way, you'll probably dig it.

Hey, let us know what you decide, and how it goes for you. I'd be interested to hear about your experience, and it may benefit others who come across the same opportunity.

 

[Phoenix44]

I cross-train. My primary arts are kenpo and jujutsu, but I've also done some capoeira, grappling, tai chi, systema, and a number of weapons. I'd say if you're a relative beginner trying to get the basics, I don't know if I'd recommend a whole lot of cross-training. But eventually, it's good to add to your repertoire.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

All I can say is, if you are much more comfortable in one style, or it "works" for you, that's great, stick with it. I enjoy a bit of cross-training, because even when I feel like an idiot, it's giving me new things to think about, new tactics, a new approach.

Point taken. I suppose I should sit down and consider whether I am not able to adapt, or if it's feeling like a beginner again that is the problem.

Like Muay Thai, it's very direct, and alive. Keep in mind also that there are many different ways JKD is being done depending upon the history of that particular instructor. If they have a previous 'root art', you'll find their JKD flavoured with those principles. If JKD is their root, then it should have more of a Kung Fu taste. Either way, you'll probably dig it.

The guy has credentials from Inosanto (sp?) Academy and from Vanuk (sp?) school of PFS. I don't know exactly what that means, maybe some of you do, but I assume the guy knows what he's doing.

I'd say if you're a relative beginner trying to get the basics, I don't know if I'd recommend a whole lot of cross-training. But eventually, it's good to add to your repertoire

I've been doing Muay Thai on and off for almost eleven years, which might be why it's so weird to adapt to something different.

Thanks again, all. . .AJ

 

[MA-Caver]

Ya, cross training can be weird because you've become so accustomed to one particular style and going off to doing something totally different.
But think about this. (Whatever) particular art you are "crossing-over" to, if it's been around for a while it obviously works, and it has particular reasons why it does fight/defend in that particular way.
I've been picking up on more and more Kenpo lately than ever before. Practicing with a friend to help them progress to their next levels... by doing this I am cross-training (informally). At one session at her school I was seeing "...this long drawn out" form being done. Later I asked an instructor (2nd Dan BB) about it and called him on it saying "wouldn't it be easier and faster to do ...this?"
He explained the principals behind it (long-drawn-outs) and chose another "long-drawn-out" form to demonstrate to me, first slowly and gently to show where the strikes would be then faster with a bit more "oomph" in the strikes.
AHH! I see now. That'd mess a guy up pretty good. :uhyeah:
So my suggestion is to mentally speed up the "long-drawn-out" stuff to actual fighting speed and ask yourself would it be effective? :asian:

 

[Feisty Mouse]

The guy has credentials from Inosanto (sp?) Academy and from Vanuk (sp?) school of PFS. I don't know exactly what that means, maybe some of you do, but I assume the guy knows what he's doing.

He should. My instructors are under Guru Inosanto, and I have been to one of his seminars. It was overwhelming, amazing, I'm really glad I went.

If he's an instructor under Inosanto, he should be good, I would think.

Paul Vunak. I have no direct experience with him, but also, suppossed to be excellent.

I've been doing Muay Thai on and off for almost eleven years, which might be why it's so weird to adapt to something different.

From my limited experience, the two systems in some ways seem very different. IMHO, I think it would be helpful for you to do a little cross-training - it doesn't sound like it could hurt or "confuse" your MT, since you have been doing it for so long. And it might be beneficial.

 

[Flatlander]

The guy has credentials from Inosanto (sp?) Academy and from Vanuk (sp?) school of PFS. I don't know exactly what that means, maybe some of you do, but I assume the guy knows what he's doing.

Yep, good lineage.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I found this - a small tidbit of information, I'm sure there's more out there if you're interested.

http://www.completemartialarts.com/whoswho/halloffame/paulvunak.htm

And you can always go to

http://www.inosanto.com to check out Guru Dan's site. He's amazing.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I found this - a small tidbit of information, I'm sure there's more out there if you're interested.

http://www.completemartialarts.com/whoswho/halloffame/paulvunak.htm

And you can always go to

http://www.inosanto.com to check out Guru Dan's site. He's amazing.

My thanks to everyone, you've helped me talk myself into checking out the JKD and PFS. Hopefully, I will pick it up quick, so as to not feel like such a newb. :asian:

AJ

 

[arnisador]

So they called another instructor who does Progressive Fighting System. It was a great work out, but he had us doing things that, as a thai fighter, I would never do in a fight. He had us doing "flow" drills, which were these complex (remember the simplicity of MT) drawn-out moves meant to do this or that and put the opponent down. The whole time i"m thinking: two elbows, a knee, push, then round kick; or clinch, three knees, heel trip= same result, less hassle.

Example: He had us dodge to the outside of a cross, bat the arm w/left hand and come over the opponents arm with a cross. . .a cross that would stun an opponent at best. Why a cross, when a hook or an uppercut would, not only be a possible ko punch, but would also set you up for a knee or a round kick? Also, he would say that we were going to do some thai drills. . .I've never seen anything like what we did in my thai classes.

I study JKD (Paul Vunak's PFS) as cross-training for my arnis. There's a lot I like about it. Mind you, I'm no expert in it (IFAJKD, in teh JKD forum, is).

I can't speak to why you did the drills you mention, but in JKD there is a real emphasis on training attributes (speed, awareness, reaction time, etc.) and some drills may be working on those as much as anything else. Also, especially with the flow drills, the real idea may be knife defense even if that isn't being brought out yet.

The PFS curriculum does include his RAT program and one works up from fighting an untrained fighter to a trained one, and those may have been techniques intended for one case or another. I don't know. It may also be that you were being shown beginner techniques and that the kind of thing you mention as a preferred counterattack would come later. Certainly, I have practiced at JKD dodging a technqiue like that and coming right back with an uppercut to the ribs.

I think the PFS is worth a try. There's a real HKE focus (headbutt, knees, elbows), some knife and stick, and a strong self-defense orientation.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Also, especially with the flow drills, the real idea may be knife defense even if that isn't being brought out yet.
I think the PFS is worth a try. There's a real HKE focus (headbutt, knees, elbows), some knife and stick, and a strong self-defense orientation.

Actually, knife defense is exactly what it was. All the students were looking kind of bewildered toward the middle of the drill, when the instructor and one of the senior students broke out the fake knives. It made more sence after seeing their demonstration. But I've never trained with knives, so it never clicked. Also, the same guy does kali once a week, so he might bring some knife/stick fighting into the PFS. I've thought about doing Kali, and will if he ends up getting a silat instructor. But I can't afford to go twice a week yet. Although, if the BJJ instructor comes back into town, I'll be puttin' in overtime!!!:ultracool Tanks again, this is really confirming a lot for me!

AJ

 

[Cdnronin]

I could see how a flow drill from JKD would seem strange and overly complex for someone who trains primarily in MT. When I went to a Dan Inosanto seminar many moons ago, I was overwhelmed and confused with the stick and knife work of FMA, as my base art was(is) Jiu Jitsu. On the second day of the seminar, when Guro Dan introduced Shooto, I felt more at home, and the Wing Chun/FMA based practicioners were out of their comfort zone.

After almost 20 years in the grappling arts/ stand up jui jitsu, I have recently begun TKD with my 8 year old son, as something we could learn together and advance at the same time. I find many things about TKD confusing or even foolish, in comparison to what I have learned previously, however I figure there is some value to any art, if you know where to look. I discount such things as crescent kicks converted to side kicks as knife defense, and the "no hands" approach to sparring, but appreciate the use of kicking, as an area that I need work on.

Sometimes it seems one art contradicts another, but at the higher levels, there is more in common than one might think at first.

 

[MJS]

Okay, So I went to my Muay Thai class yesterday, and the instructor didn't show up (I work with his wife, so I'm sure he'll get it, j/k). So they called another instructor who does Progressive Fighting System. It was a great work out, but he had us doing things that, as a thai fighter, I would never do in a fight. He had us doing "flow" drills, which were these complex (remember the simplicity of MT) drawn-out moves meant to do this or that and put the opponent down. The whole time i"m thinking: two elbows, a knee, push, then round kick; or clinch, three knees, heel trip= same result, less hassle.

Example: He had us dodge to the outside of a cross, bat the arm w/left hand and come over the opponents arm with a cross. . .a cross that would stun an opponent at best. Why a cross, when a hook or an uppercut would, not only be a possible ko punch, but would also set you up for a knee or a round kick? Also, he would say that we were going to do some thai drills. . .I've never seen anything like what we did in my thai classes.

I can't help but feel like I'm being a little superficial, and I don't want to be that way. Do I just need time to adjust? The same guy does JKD next week, and I was thinking about going, but now I'm wondering if I should just stick to Muay Thai.

Thanks in advance all, for your wisdom.

AJ

Its good to get a taste of other things. Keep in mind that it is going to feel odd, especially if you've been doing one thing for a while. Two different arts, offering different ways to deal with an attack, but yet, in the end, they both get the same results. Keep in mind that many of the 'drills' are just that...drills. Chances are you wont fight like that, but they are teaching you certain things. Chances are, unless you hit the guy just right, the odds of that one punch one kill are pretty rare. Not saying that it doesnt happen, but again, its hitting the right spot. The combo that he had you doing, does still allow for the knee strike to be done, as well as a clinch that could lead to more knees. Also, with proper footwork, doing a roundhouse to the leg is also an option.

Keep an open mind. Like I always say when it comes to crosstraining. Even if you learn one thing, work it like crazy, and add it to your routine, just think how much better you'll be.

Mike