Is Having A "Record" Necessary?

[MJS]

Hello, Keep in mind those who who have a fight record are most likely pretty good fighters in the ring, which has rules,judges,time-outs,regulations.

On the streets in a real fight...which could have eye strikes,throat attacks,bone breaking techniques, anything goes,including using anything around you for weapons.....is NOT the same as fighting in the rings.

Having a fighting record proves you have some ability to fight in a contest, and experience in fighting in regulated conditions.

Those with records have the advantage because this is the next closest thing to a real fight. Most likely in very good shape, train differently.

Most of us who have not gotton in to real life situtions, the challenge is can we react and perform how we are train?

The adrenline response is something most of us do not experience on a daily basis.

Remember the places to attack.....DO the eyes have It! Go for broke...namely the choke (throat attacks)...than if not, we work ourselves for the next best tarkets...........Aloha

PS: Records...is best if your records shows you to be a good person!

While I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, just be prepared to be hit with comments stating that there is tape of people trying to do this to the Gracies and they didn't have much luck.

Mike

 

[matt.m]

I have a 33-2-0 record and an 18 -2-1 record. The first is Judo, the 2nd is wrestling. I was a participant on both teams while serving in the Marine Corps. I think if you are good, people will know it and seek you out. Reputation says a ton, a record means nothing to me.

I don't think a record or video tape of a contest validates being a good fighter either. I have been in hand to hand and a plethra of awards from the Marine Corps for combat. I was a good Marine, am I am fighter? Nope, only when provoked. I have not been in a "Fight" in 10 years. I have defended others, but I am not a fighter.

I don't think that MMA/Pride fighting is any more fighting than Olympic Judo or Olympic Tae Kwon Do. All of the above are a contest, fights happen outside on pavement, contests happen in arenas and gym.

Do I think that Matt Hughes and Georges St. Pierre are great athletes as well as outstanding competitors. You bet your boots I do. However the UFC is not fighting. Rules=contest, No Rules = fight.

Do people respect a good MMA record? Yes, people respect a good record in any event though.

 

[Robert Lee]

In the ring a fight record show how you have performed. on the streets its word of mouth someone knew perhaps who you fought word spreads You either get a little more respect from some or make others come looking for you. Any person should not worry about a fight record unless its sport fighting. On the streets you did fight because you had to. Look at all the old Instructors from many years back. No videos showing there fights. Most all if any was for a must. And yet people still speak of them. Yes some will over rate there ablity but that just comes back on them when they have to use it. Some people train just as hard as ring fighters and can best several of those that get into the ring. But they train that way because they want. and a good chance they may never have to test there self. I have never met a good street fighter yet that bragged and bragged. They ones that could really back up there self did just that And others that new them did not try to test them because they new what the person could do. But with todays times information is a click away people can say anything you never know the truth without looking. A good fighter fights, people street or ring see and feel the results Its like the story if a tree falls in the woods and there is nobody there to see it did it make a sound Sure it did but no one ever heard or new it fell.

 

[searcher]

Rules=contest, No Rules = fight.

That says it for me. Records are for getting bigger fight purses and sponsors. I have respect for a bunch of guys who have never fought a single competition. Does that not make them good fighters...absolutely not.

 

[jks9199]

No, I don't think you have to have a "record" if you are making no claims.

However, if you are asserting that what you teach or practice is superior, or want to be a credible representative of a style, I think having some evidence or proof would be advisable.

Of course, there are different ways of doing this. I don't think you have to enter competitions necessarily or pick streetfights, but having a reputable lineage or at least people of acknowledged skill vouch for you would be great.

I guess it comes down to also being honest with yourself as a "fighter". If you are comfortable never having actually tested what you know in a competition setting or against people who aren't your normal training partners than fine. My only caveat is for those who train in that manner that you shouldn't be surprised if not everyone is willing to accept your self-assesment.

For those who train for fun and fitness, than they have no need to prove anything to anyone, again, especially if they are making to claims or criticizing other training methodologies. But if you are going to start being a guru or a critic, back it up people.

While I'm inherently suspicious of anyone who makes the "what I teach is too dangerous for tournaments/rings" claim, it's important to recognize that a competitive record isn't the same thing as a combative record. My system has a combative record; I know many fellow students around the country who have used the principles in law enforcement, the military, or simple self defense. Many members have earned impressive competitive records, both in our own tournaments and in open tournaments over the years. Not all of the best competitors are effective in the "real deal."

As my students skills progress, I encourage them to compete in full contact and light contact competitions. The stress of competition against different people can be very educational, even if you fight regularly in class against classmates. And the system has recently begun requiring recent in-house fighting experience for black belts, which is something I agree with. (Victory isn't required -- but they've got to fight, either light or full contact.) At the same time -- for under belts, I don't require them to fight outside of class.

I think a lot comes down to having faith in your teachers and in your system. I trust what my instructor has taught me; he trusts what he was taught. My own experience has verified that many of the principles do work. I'm satisified, even if I don't compete again. But I don't judge another person on whether they've got a great competitive record, either. Let's be honest; especially in pro competitions, some fights are chosen to build "impressive" records. I've seen boxing matches where it was blatantly obvious which fighters were being developed by the managers for bigger things -- and which were simply opponents to develop those records against. So, when I judge what a person has to say or claims they make about their martial art, I listen to what they say. I assess it for myself. Just like if I were in a discussion about who to vote for, what book to read, or anything else.

 

[Ybot]

Throughout many threads on this forum, I've seen posts that basically state that if you don't have a MA fight record, you're not really the fighter you say you are, as there is no proof of victory without one.

So, my question is: Do you feel that its necessary? Do you need to enter the UFC, NAGA, or any other sport event, to get that record?

Mike

Having a verifiable record is good for marketing purposes. You want to teach, or get sponsered for future compitition a (good) compitition record is very useful.

If you don't want to do either of those things, who cares? If someone doesn't want to believe my fighting experience, that's fine, it doesn't matter to me.

Oh, and a note on my first statement on teaching. Compitition records are more useful when teaching certain martial arts than others. MMA, Kickboxing, Judo, Olympic Tae Kwan Do, and other competitive martial arts I believe having a compitition record is a great advantage as an instructor. Aikido, Tai Chi Chuan, Krav Maga, and Systema practitioners would probably value other experience, lineage, or respected recomendation when choosing an instructor over compitition record.

 

[Hand Sword]

It's definitely not necessary. No matter what we do, MMA, TMA, or street, we all know,and have seen certain people easily handle, or trash, the people that we consider the "fighters". These people also hardly, if ever, compete in anything, but, still, the respect is there.

 

[Odin]

''on the streets'' <---- ZZZZzzzzzzzzz

To me a fight record is like a belt system, im not interested in someone giving me a grading based on what moves I know,I would like to think I know how good I really am based on what I have won and lost and how and why.

Thats just me though I know a couple guys in my muay thai camp who think that they're grade is more important then there record and vise versa its a sort of split thing.

Theres one quote i heard a while i go that i did like though it went

''Black belt??my belts that gold thing in the ring!''

I thought that was nice

 

[MJS]

I never refer to myself as a fighter. I have no professional record and it would be hypocritical for me to refer to myself as anything other than a student.

A few more questions. I'm still interested in hearing the answer to this question:

Do you feel confident with your training?

Looking through some of the other MMA/TMA related threads, you seem to be pretty pro MMA. In your profile, you have Karate listed as your art. Do you train MMA? Do you add any ideas, concepts, etc., from MMA to your training?

Mike

 

[Fu_Bag]

First off, do you really want a reputation as a scrapper or fighter showing up in the courtroom should you ever have a valid reason for using your abilities?

Second, do you really want a reputation as an unbeatable fighter on the street?

Third, if you do have the established reputation of being an unbeatable fighter on the street, why would anyone waste their time fighting you unarmed when they could easily kill you at a safe distance with a gun?

It seems about as smart as searching your house with a flashlight when you think someone is in there. You give your position away and make it easier for whoever is in there to shoot you. Outside of $$$ reasons, is having a reputation a tactical advantage, or a tactical disadvantage?

That'd be like going to war and giving the other side a complete copy of your battle plans and a way to monitor your movments and communications. I don't see any martial value to a record at all. It doesn't serve as a deterrent to anyone of consequence. At best, you might scare away a few piss ants but that's about it.

 

[still learning]

Hello, There is one more possible answer to: Is records necessay?

If you are selling your art, promoting your classes or yourself....records do attract more people to listen and train under you.

Because of the success of "Graces"....their records in the rings.....Brazilan Jujistu is one of the biggest and fastest growing martial arts today.

Records can be a selling point, sales tool, and marketing advantage.

We all love people with outstanding records....our hero's, like Tiger Woods, OJ-?, Auty Murphy,Still Learning-?, Chuck Norris, Ali!,Beatles, Kansas City Chiefs, USA Marines, George Bush.........Um....Aloha

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Not unless you want to be known as a fighter in communities where such a record matters.