Interesting class

[twendkata71]

A really good mixed style is Benny Uriquidez (UKidokan) Shotokan and kenpo karate, mixed with BudoJujitsu.
With a mix like that you get the strong base of Shotokan and the quick attacks of kenpo.

 

[exile]

A really good mixed style is Benny Uriquidez (UKidokan) Shotokan and kenpo karate, mixed with BudoJujitsu.
With a mix like that you get the strong base of Shotokan and the quick attacks of kenpo.

Yes, that makes sense, it's something I visualize with TKD taking the place of Shotokan in the mix---given their common base, it seems like a TKD/kenpo/Bodujujitsu would give you a similar `blended' approach.

 

[twendkata71]

I have one for your training. If you really want to know the kata. Try performing each kata from the end to the begining backwards. It is quite hard to do but you gain new insite into the kata.

 

[exile]

I have one for your training. If you really want to know the kata. Try performing each kata from the end to the begining backwards. It is quite hard to do but you gain new insite into the kata.

Twendkata---cool idea! Never would have occured to me... but yes, it would kind of like running a film backwards---you would see things from an angle you hadn't before, and it would in some sense still be the `same' kata, just examined from the end step by step back to the beginning.

I'm going to be doing a forms workout tonight---will give it a try.
Thanks much!

 

[JasonASmith]

I have one for your training. If you really want to know the kata. Try performing each kata from the end to the begining backwards. It is quite hard to do but you gain new insite into the kata.

I have tried that with Heian Shodan, and you're right! It really makes you think!
Actually, I think that a part of one of the tests(either for Green belt or Brown belt) in our Dojo is just that...

 

[twendkata71]

This type of kata training will help your training especially when you get into the more advanced kata.
Another variation on this is to do the kata starting with the opposite side. Going to the right instead of the left. I learned this type of training from my kenpo experiences. They to both sides of the body.
This way you develop both sides of the body. Good luck in your training and keep on punching and kicking. Osu.

 

[JasonASmith]

Well, it's becoming a common occurence after every class now...
Sensei didn't even have to ask what I wanted to work on...he just looked at me, and said "Tjimande?" Of course, my reply was, "Hell yes!" We worked some bunkai for some of the Heians and then launched into the Silat for about 15 minutes...I think that I am starting to get the basic "flow" of the movements in the kata...YeGods, what brutality!

 

[exile]

I think that I am starting to get the basic "flow" of the movements in the kata...YeGods, what brutality!

Just remember: no pain (for them), no gain (for you) :wink1:

 

[twendkata71]

When you get into the advance aspects of karate or martial arts training it definetely gets more deadly and brutal. That is what made karate originally so effective. When it was adapted to sport many of those aspects were hindered,watered down,taken out. In that aspect modern karate and martial arts have lost its way.
It is up the ones of us that are dedicated to learning the real way the martial arts are supposed to practiced to work towards.

 

[JasonASmith]

It is up the ones of us that are dedicated to learning the real way the martial arts are supposed to practiced to work towards.

I'm up for it, anyone else?

 

[twendkata71]

Ill be doing it until Im gone. Kind of a lifes work thing.

 

[exile]

I'm up for it, anyone else?[/SIZE]

I think quite a few of MT people are, JAS---as Twendkata correctly notes in his previous post, `it's a life's work'. What is encouraging is the increasing number of books and websites devoted to this aspect of the kata-based striking arts.

It's too bad that the wheel has to be reinvented so many times---I keep encountering this question coming up on different threads---`what's the use of kata, why do we need them?'---and the same discussions take place. I gather from this that the real nature of kata, unchanged since Matsumura's and Itosu's time, still isn't sufficiently well known, though there's a lot more out there on kaisai no geri than there used to be.

Just once I'd like to see some Karate or TKD outfit organize a big MA event which wasn't some tournament, but was an extended hands-on showcase of kata bunkai and methods of training for real combat based on kata-based combat methods (in his book Bunkai Jutsu: the Practical Application of Karate Kata, Abernethy spends a whole chapter describing the sparring methods he uses to train for hard-combat kata-based fighting). That's another aspect that needs looking into...

 

[Boomer]

I was just blown away by how easily this form of Silat and Shotokan came together as one...I would have figured that there would have been stark differences(there probably are, I just haven't seen them as of yet) between the two arts.

Perhaps ya just need a little time to see the differences. I was already shodan in shotokan when I was introduced to mande muda and the forms therein. I think you're working on the "monjet" form...anyway, I think the biggest difference is in what I call the "compass".
In Japanese arts like karate and kobudo, we are taught all about the eight directions of attack. You are positioned in the center of a giant compass with these 8 directions from which you may be attacked, and you train to defend those angles and retailiate. In shotokan especially, we attack very much on a linear plane until a more advanced level of understanding...like your "Mack truck" analogy from another post.
In tjimande we are taught that your opponent is the center of the compass, and you move around him. There's even stepping patterns we are taught to use to gain advantage on angular attacking. So the focus becomes more of an effort in agility, but with practice becomes natural.

 

[JasonASmith]

Perhaps ya just need a little time to see the differences. I was already shodan in shotokan when I was introduced to mande muda and the forms therein. I think you're working on the "monjet" form...anyway, I think the biggest difference is in what I call the "compass".
In Japanese arts like karate and kobudo, we are taught all about the eight directions of attack. You are positioned in the center of a giant compass with these 8 directions from which you may be attacked, and you train to defend those angles and retailiate. In shotokan especially, we attack very much on a linear plane until a more advanced level of understanding...like your "Mack truck" analogy from another post.
In tjimande we are taught that your opponent is the center of the compass, and you move around him. There's even stepping patterns we are taught to use to gain advantage on angular attacking. So the focus becomes more of an effort in agility, but with practice becomes natural.

I absolutely need time to see the differences!
Sensei demonstrated something on me one time using Shotokan, and without pause switched to Tjimande...It worked REALLY well, and that was the impetus for me to start getting interested in the kata and some of the bunkai(and thus why I started this thread) Hopefully I haven't irritated you with my Tjimande cheerleading, I just enjoy the hell out of it; almost(but not quite) as much as the Shotokan that the two of you are teaching me/us...