Inheritors Of The Art

[MJS]

Mike,

This is my personal belief only. I have no proof no conversation with him, only putting pieces of data together.

When Remy left the Phillipines after his ambassador passport was taken form him by the government. It was around the issue of the President at the time Marcos who wanted control of the system. If he had set up a permanent structor with a single person it would make it too easy for someone to use laws he did not know to take his life's work from him. He saw it start to crumble in his homeland, and left the country and moved to the US. If you see the regions of the people over time he worked with, you see that he might say something slightly different in terms for a technique, but it fit with the local school or with the local region. His point was that he wanted to teach and have people learn and be happy. Not deal with people who might be trying to scam him.

Just my opinion. I have no proof. So read with a grain of salt.

Makes sense to me Rich. Spread it out so no one can possibly 'take' it all. You end up with a nice diverse group of "brother and sister" styles, similar enough to be family, but just that hair different enough to not be 'clones'.

Points taken guys. Hey, by all means, and this was said earlier...IMO, I'd rather see ALL of GM Remys students continue to share the art, spreading it, and keep it growing, rather than seeing people running around, trying to take credit for something they aren't. I'm sure he had alot of visitors in his last days. Were all those visitors there with good intent, or did they see something to try to cash in on?

 

[Guro Harold]

I'm not going to get into bunch of details here, but Remy was a gypsy. It would be hard for my to get him into a firm with the schedule he had. Remy did things on the road because of his life style.

Hi James,

Respectfully, you are speaking in a very familiar tone regarding GM Presas. Since we don't know that much about you, may I ask how long have you been training Modern Arnis and how long did you know the Professor?

Thanks

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I know I shouldn't be posting on this thread while taking cold medicine, but I feel the need to chime in. There are 3 will to my knowledge.

1st. by David Pajack from Buffalo, NY in the late 80's.
2nd. by Brett Salafia from Connecticut in the 90's.
3rd. by Kevin Black & Ida Cummaford in Buffalo, NY April 2000.

I can't comment on the 1st two, but I know all about how the third one came about. Kevin Black is one on my students from my home school in Buffalo. He is also a 2nd degree Black Belt who tested under Prof. The Professor would quite often ask the members of his organization to help out with his personal affairs. I hosted Prof. in April of '00. While he was in town he met with Kevin at my house and went into a separate room to discuss what he wanted in the will.

After Prof left for his next seminar Kevin went back to the firm he worked at and prepare the will. A month later Kevin, with his wife (also an attorney) accompanied me to Remy's Seminar and my birthday bash that Mike Bates was hosting. Before the weekend was over Kevin and Ida sat down with Remy to sign and finalize the will.

As mentioned before, this is how Prof. did things. I'm pretty sure that all three will where prepared free of charge. They helped out the Prof. because they liked him. And if anyone want to question the integrity of the attorneys that helped the Prof out, Pajack was an assist DA, Salafia has a similar position, and Black is now working for the FBI.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Now that I addressed the will, let me say this about who are the inheritors. I am, and everyone else who picked up a stick and trained with the Prof! We all share in the duty of carrying on the system.

 

[jks9199]

Now that I addressed the will, let me say this about who are the inheritors. I am, and everyone else who picked up a stick and trained with the Prof! We all share in the duty of carrying on the system.

I really like this statement. Whatever our style, WE are the inheritors from our teachers, and we all share the responsibility to pass on what was given and shared with us.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I really like this statement. Whatever our style, WE are the inheritors from our teachers, and we all share the responsibility to pass on what was given and shared with us.

Absolutely!!!

 

[MJS]

Agreed, and as I said, I'm all for every student and teacher 'inheriting' some piece of the art and sharing it with others. I was referring more though, to a person, group, etc, that blatently makes the claim/statement, that they are a sole heir/inheritor of something.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

That was actually me. My computer is in the shop at the moment. I've been using my staffs computers and forgot to see if anyone was logged on MT. If everything goes right I'll have my machine back in the afternoon with a 2TB hard drive for media storage! :bangahead:

Hi James,

Respectfully, you are speaking in a very familiar tone regarding GM Presas. Since we don't know that much about you, may I ask how long have you been training Modern Arnis and how long did you know the Professor?

Thanks

 

[Guro Harold]

Thanks Datu!

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Could you send me a url of the site in question?

Agreed, and as I said, I'm all for every student and teacher 'inheriting' some piece of the art and sharing it with others. I was referring more though, to a person, group, etc, that blatently makes the claim/statement, that they are a sole heir/inheritor of something.

 

[MJS]

Could you send me a url of the site in question?

Of course. I'll PM you in a moment.

Sent.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Personally I don't see how anyone person or group could be the sole inheritors of Gm Remy's system of Modern Arnis. GM Remy made his living on the road teaching at different seminars to different groups of people, generally martial artists in different arts. He promoted Modern Arnis to be the "art within your art" so he taught differently to different groups.

Having attended several camps/seminars with various instructors in Modern Arnis, i.e. the Motts, Dan Anderson, Bram, Datu Dieter, Datu Hartman, Jeff Delaney, Remy Jr., Datu Kelly Worden, and seeing other instructors from the PI (Bambit, Gm Tongas) at these camps and such. Generally they all teach different and have different skills, and different points of view on Modern Arnis and they all learned and trained with the same guy. All of these individuals (and many more) spent years, months, days and hours training and learning from GM Remy, but they are all very different in their approaches to the art, their presentations, etc. etc.

I don't believe it would be this diverse if he taught from a central school or location and everyone trained there and then spread out and promoted the art. While he was teaching Modern Arnis, he promoted it as the "art within your art" therefore I believe that people would come away from training camps and seminars with different views because they filtered it through their primary arts. Another reason I think the art is as diverse as is is was because the Professor taught from the view point of motion application which would lead to a even wider view instead of it being just this technique or that. Then you have him teaching some things over here in the states like the empty hand anyos and then not teaching them in other areas and so on. I remember being at my first camp and GM Remy telling my training partner (who was an instructor in Preying Mantis gung fu) that his anyo Isa was very good when he did it as if he was doing a mantis form.

With a teaching methodology like the Professor had, his life style, even his art it self, I don't see how any one person could claim to be the sole inheritor of the system. And to be honest I don't think the Professor wanted a sole inheritor, rather I do believe he would be quite proud of the way things have turned out. Maybe it is not quite what he envisioned but none the less to see the vast differences between his top students and where they have taken his art, I can help but believe he would be proud.

Another positive thing to have come out in recent years has been the seminars where the seniors are getting together and teaching; the symposium, Dan's Summer camp in 2005, Dieter Summer camps, and last years Reunion Camp hosted by Datu Hartman each one has gotten better and I believe the best is yet to come as differences are put aside. In my opinion the instruction at the camps has gotten better since GM Remy's passing and frankly the art itself has become stronger with the diversification of the teaching.

 

[Zenjael]

The inheritor of the art carries a great responsibility for its survival.

 

[DennisBreene]

My instructor studied with Master Presas for 6 years. Now, like many others, he is passing his knowledge on to a new generation of students (including this old codger). Most martial arts systems have a few centuries of formal existance and a certain level of codification starting in the 20th century. Grand Masters like Funikoshi, Hwang Kee, Emperado come to mind. Master Presas' system is relatively new in a formal sense. I expect that as his most skilled students emerge, they will continue to refine and promulgate the tenets of this wonderful art. Historically, all of the major systems seem to have gone through a similar time when the founding Master passes. We are fortunate that we can turn to videos of Master Presas and review his teachings. From there it is up to the rising Masters to carry on the art and add to it.

As a student of the martial arts, wouldn't it be somewhat safe to say that all students are inheritors of the arts? Not in the sense that we're in charge of a system or organization, but the knowledge base itself of the arts. On the subject of Arnis, my only experience with it personnally came in the form of a seminar I attended back in the mid 80's with Jeff Arnold.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Most martial arts systems have a few centuries of formal existance and a certain level of codification starting in the 20th century. Grand Masters like Funikoshi, Hwang Kee, Emperado come to mind. Master Presas' system is relatively new in a formal sense.

Dennis
I disagree and agree with this statement in principle. Most martial Art systems don't have a few centuries of formal existence, in fact most systems that we know of today have only recently been created most occurring in the 20th Century making them a little of 100years old and generally in the 80ys and below range. In fact looking at the history of the martial arts say Japanese Karate, TKD, Arnis (Kali and Escrima), Systema, Aikido, Kajukenpo, Savate, even many forms of Kung Fu are all recent creations. Even Judo was created in the late 19th century.

But your point as I understand it is completely true in that Modern Arnis is a new art (just celebrating 50 years in 2007).

I know that some battlefield arts existed prior to 100 years ago but they don't really resemble the arts as they are taught today.

I expect that as his most skilled students emerge, they will continue to refine and promulgate the tenets of this wonderful art. Historically, all of the major systems seem to have gone through a similar time when the founding Master passes. We are fortunate that we can turn to videos of Master Presas and review his teachings. From there it is up to the rising Masters to carry on the art and add to it.

What is even more fortunate is that you have an Modern Arnis instructor who studied with GM Presas for a decent amount of time and is passing on the art to you. GM Remy's DVDs do help show the way but it is the new group of instructors who will now help the art to grow.

I'm glad to have found a Modern Arnis instructor, it is a great art.