I'm New to this....?

[Dirty Dog]

Sorry DD. I misread

Sorry DD. I misread the post, thinking he was talking to you. But I did mean what I said about you beng the top tkd guy on the site.

LOL... I'm more active than most, but there are plenty of people senior to me. Andy Jeffries on the Kukkiwon side, and Earl Weiss on the ITF side spring to mind...

 

[Tames D]

LOL... I'm more active than most, but there are plenty of people senior to me. Andy Jeffries on the Kukkiwon side, and Earl Weiss on the ITF side spring to mind...

Can you just accept a compliment for crying out loud?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can you just accept a compliment for crying out loud?

LOL Sure.

 

[Drose427]

OP, to give you some background in TKD. Taekwondo is essentially just a blanket term. When it was named such in the 50's, the name was agreed upon by the 9 kwans, 9 schools teaching different things with different backgrounds. From there, Martial Arts schools in Korea started calling themselves TKD based of their lineage, where their style originates. I.E we call our Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo, but we are essentially Tang Soo Do. Then, later on 2 Men created 2 different Major organizations knwon as the World Taekwondo Federation, and the International Taekwondo Federation. The WTF, is Sport TKD. They oversee National and Olympic Competitions and while schools till teach Self-Defense and Forms, their emphasis is sparring within the rules set by the WTF. Just do a quick google search of "Aaron Cook Matches" and you'll see a tiny portion of what their about, he was at one time and may still be, considered the best in the world in WTF Taekwondo. ITF is marketed as more Tradition and Self Defense focused while still having frequent competitions. Their sparring is radically different and looks very much like the karate/kickboxing tournaments from the days of Superfoot Wallace.

Theres also a 3rd group which is simply considered "traditional." These are minor organizations such as ours (The USTW), and associations under specific grandmasters. Although theyre considered traditional, they vary. Our focus is Self-Defense and Self-Improvement. While our rules are kinda like ITF's for tournament sparring, we only go to about 2 tournaments a year (Politics amongst the Korean Grandmasters are a factor here as well), and our classes regularly consist of Forms, Free Sparring, One Step/ 3 Step Sparring, and General Self-Defense. Curriculums in this 3rd group will vary greatly based on the background of the Grandmaster and instructors. Many of our Instructors are ex-military, so we learn some military techniques and get input from that background. We also teach many basic Hapkido, Judo, and Aikido techniques so have have some grappling/throwing experience and understand how to chain techs like a trip into an arm bar on the ground. I have Wrestling and some BJJ experience, so should I open a school, I can and will teach that.
Class structure can also very greatly. We pride ourselves in being a militaristic association, meaning discipline and chain of command are 2 of the most important things you learn early on. It doesnt sound important, but a lack of these two things tends to be a major sign of a McDojo.

Finally, it's very difficult for any of us to give you an strong advice becuase we have no idea of your style, association, or how your techniques are done. Some general tips:

1. If you have a space, hang a tennis ball up at about head level. Set a daily limit and practice each kick that many times on each leg. This will build muscle and accuracy.

2. Get something solid to kick. A heavy bag is one of the best tools you can get. But if you cant hang one for whatever reason, a standing bag works too. Just understand a standing bag isnt for power, but for speed/cardio.

3. Practice each of your forms 3 times a day! Dont underestimate how much this will help your athleticism.

4. Practice your stances! Get a times, get in a proper (as taught by your school), deep stance and hold it for 2 minutes on each side. As you get stronger just increase the time.

5. STRETCH EVERY NIGHT. No excuses.

6. Finally, don't give up! The mark of a fighter, regardless of style or competitive setting, is his or her indomitable spirit.

Edit: One more quick word of advice, make sure when you're learning your forms you're also learning exactly what the move is or could be. If you don't know what the move is, how can you learn it's application? Without the understanding of the move and its applications, the form is little more than a choreographed dance number. Great for exercise, you'll get some discipline, but they wont help you in SD.

 

[dominate_warrior]

That "Grandmaster" and your "White Belt" are just the MartialTalk version of a post count. If you post, your "rank" goes up. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a members rank within their particular martial art.
Your "rank" here can advance a lot faster than your TKD rank...

Oh haha. I apologize for that. But I reckon that you are a lot more experienced than myself

 

[dominate_warrior]

Sorry DD. I misread

Sorry DD. I misread the post, thinking he was talking to you. But I did mean what I said about you beng the top tkd guy on the site.

Thank you. And I hope I am doing the right thing in starting this art. I have always been a good fighter, but do you guys think it's a good art to begin? (As a beginner in the arts?)

 

[Dirty Dog]

OP, to give you some background in TKD. Taekwondo is essentially just a blanket term. When it was named such in the 50's, the name was agreed upon by the 9 kwans, 9 schools teaching different things with different backgrounds. From there, Martial Arts schools in Korea started calling themselves TKD based of their lineage, where their style originates. I.E we call our Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo, but we are essentially Tang Soo Do.

You were doing pretty well right up until the last sentence... Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo and Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do are very different systems. While there is commonality of origins with GM HWANG, Kee, that is pretty much where it stops. Their curriculum are completely different.

Then, later on 2 Men created 2 different Major organizations knwon as the World Taekwondo Federation, and the International Taekwondo Federation. The WTF, is Sport TKD. They oversee National and Olympic Competitions and while schools till teach Self-Defense and Forms, their emphasis is sparring within the rules set by the WTF.

And now you've gone completely off.
The only correct statement here is that the ITF was formed by one man - Gen CHOI, Hong Hi, after he split from the KTA for political reasons. (Although the ITF has splintered since the death of Gen CHOI, and there are now at least 3 groups purporting to be "the" ITF.) Everything else is wrong.
The WTF was not formed by any one man; it was formed by committee for one purpose and one purpose only: to oversee and promote tournaments using the ruleset developed for Olympic competition. That's it. Nothing more. The WTF has no curriculum. It awards no rank. There are no WTF schools because the only members of the WTF are national governing bodies that oversee Olympic-rules tournaments within a particular country. There is no such thing as "WTF taekwondo".
What you're saying about the WTF is a common misconception, but it's still wrong.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thank you. And I hope I am doing the right thing in starting this art. I have always been a good fighter, but do you guys think it's a good art to begin? (As a beginner in the arts?)

Ultimately, what art you study doesn't really matter. You'll quickly find out if you're learning things that work for you. If you are, then you're in the right place. If not, then try somewhere else.

 

[dominate_warrior]

OP, to give you some background in TKD. Taekwondo is essentially just a blanket term. When it was named such in the 50's, the name was agreed upon by the 9 kwans, 9 schools teaching different things with different backgrounds. From there, Martial Arts schools in Korea started calling themselves TKD based of their lineage, where their style originates. I.E we call our Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo, but we are essentially Tang Soo Do. Then, later on 2 Men created 2 different Major organizations knwon as the World Taekwondo Federation, and the International Taekwondo Federation. The WTF, is Sport TKD. They oversee National and Olympic Competitions and while schools till teach Self-Defense and Forms, their emphasis is sparring within the rules set by the WTF. Just do a quick google search of "Aaron Cook Matches" and you'll see a tiny portion of what their about, he was at one time and may still be, considered the best in the world in WTF Taekwondo. ITF is marketed as more Tradition and Self Defense focused while still having frequent competitions. Their sparring is radically different and looks very much like the karate/kickboxing tournaments from the days of Superfoot Wallace.

Theres also a 3rd group which is simply considered "traditional." These are minor organizations such as ours (The USTW), and associations under specific grandmasters. Although theyre considered traditional, they vary. Our focus is Self-Defense and Self-Improvement. While our rules are kinda like ITF's for tournament sparring, we only go to about 2 tournaments a year (Politics amongst the Korean Grandmasters are a factor here as well), and our classes regularly consist of Forms, Free Sparring, One Step/ 3 Step Sparring, and General Self-Defense. Curriculums in this 3rd group will vary greatly based on the background of the Grandmaster and instructors. Many of our Instructors are ex-military, so we learn some military techniques and get input from that background. We also teach many basic Hapkido, Judo, and Aikido techniques so have have some grappling/throwing experience and understand how to chain techs like a trip into an arm bar on the ground. I have Wrestling and some BJJ experience, so should I open a school, I can and will teach that.
Class structure can also very greatly. We pride ourselves in being a militaristic association, meaning discipline and chain of command are 2 of the most important things you learn early on. It doesnt sound important, but a lack of these two things tends to be a major sign of a McDojo.

Finally, it's very difficult for any of us to give you an strong advice becuase we have no idea of your style, association, or how your techniques are done. Some general tips:

1. If you have a space, hang a tennis ball up at about head level. Set a daily limit and practice each kick that many times on each leg. This will build muscle and accuracy.

2. Get something solid to kick. A heavy bag is one of the best tools you can get. But if you cant hang one for whatever reason, a standing bag works too. Just understand a standing bag isnt for power, but for speed/cardio.

3. Practice each of your forms 3 times a day! Dont underestimate how much this will help your athleticism.

4. Practice your stances! Get a times, get in a proper (as taught by your school), deep stance and hold it for 2 minutes on each side. As you get stronger just increase the time.

5. STRETCH EVERY NIGHT. No excuses.

6. Finally, don't give up! The mark of a fighter, regardless of style or competitive setting, is his or her indomitable spirit.

Edit: One more quick word of advice, make sure when you're learning your forms you're also learning exactly what the move is or could be. If you don't know what the move is, how can you learn it's application? Without the understanding of the move and its applications, the form is little more than a choreographed dance number. Great for exercise, you'll get some discipline, but they wont help you in SD.

Thank you so much!! I will make it my goal to achieve those things listed. Do you have any preference on gear? My school doesn't have a requirement for it so I wanted to ask. As sparring goes. Quick question: what are the regulations for sparring? Like where can I punch and kick? Can I punch? If so where on the body?

 

[Gnarlie]

So if the WTF doesn't have a syllabus, how does Kukkiwon fit into this picture of history? Who started that? *whistles innocently*

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thank you so much!! I will make it my goal to achieve those things listed. Do you have any preference on gear? My school doesn't have a requirement for it so I wanted to ask. As sparring goes. Quick question: what are the regulations for sparring? Like where can I punch and kick? Can I punch? If so where on the body?

Sparring regulations vary widely even within a specific org. The web site looks like your school is in the ATF (an ITF splinter group). From what I can find in an admittedly cursory check of the ATF home website, it's basically kicking to the body or head, punching to the body only, and apparently the face is off limits entirely. Pads for hands, feet and head seem to be the norm. And it looks like 'point' sparring, where the match is stopped every time a point is scored.

For gear, if your school doesn't specify, check out places like Century Martial Arts, which has a bit of everything for reasonable prices. You can get very inexpensive cloth-covered pads for the hands/forearms and feet/shins for like 20 a pair or somesuch. Or you can get more expensive leather covered gear. Or anything in between. My wife favors this sort of gear. I use this sort, but mine are leather covered (more durable...).

 

[Dirty Dog]

So if the WTF doesn't have a syllabus,

There is no "if" about it. It doesn't. You can look at the WTF site if you're confused about this. It's really quite clear about the purpose of the WTF.

how does Kukkiwon fit into this picture of history? Who started that?

The heads of various Kwans (schools) banded together - 5 originally, shortly joined by 4 more - in an attempt to unify martial arts in Korea and come up with a standard curriculum. This group was originally the Korean Taesoodo Association, then Korean Taekwondo Association (after the name for this unified art was chosen). The KTA eventually established the Kukkiwon as their central school.

Unlike the WTF, the Kukkiwon is an actual style of TKD. It establishes a curriculum, sets (and attempts to enforce, at least to some degree) standards, and awards rank. There are tons of Kukkiwon affiliated schools around the world (it is the largest single TKD system) and you can easily identify Dan holders by looking at their certificates, all of which are printed to conform to designs developed by the Kukkiwon, use the Kukkiwon logo, specify that the person named on them has 'passed the Kukkiwon test requirements' for the rank, and are signed by the President of the Kukkiwon.

The WTF does give out certificates (I have one...), but they're not rank. They're "thanks for your service to TKD" certificates, and things of that sort.

*whistles innocently*

Oh, is that whistling? I thought it was farting...

 

[Gnarlie]

There is no "if" about it. It doesn't.

I know. I used the 'if' because the Kukkiwon was conspicuous by it's absence in the history of Taekwondo as summarised in this thread so far.

No confusion here. Sadly can't say the same about farting.

 

[PhotonGuy]

dominate_warrior you should ask around at your school for advice on TKD. They should be able to help you the most.

 

[dominate_warrior]

Sparring regulations vary widely even within a specific org. The web site looks like your school is in the ATF (an ITF splinter group). From what I can find in an admittedly cursory check of the ATF home website, it's basically kicking to the body or head, punching to the body only, and apparently the face is off limits entirely. Pads for hands, feet and head seem to be the norm. And it looks like 'point' sparring, where the match is stopped every time a point is scored.

For gear, if your school doesn't specify, check out places like Century Martial Arts, which has a bit of everything for reasonable prices. You can get very inexpensive cloth-covered pads for the hands/forearms and feet/shins for like 20 a pair or somesuch. Or you can get more expensive leather covered gear. Or anything in between. My wife favors this sort of gear. I use this sort, but mine are leather covered (more durable...).

Thank you!

 

[Drose427]

You were doing pretty well right up until the last sentence... Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo and Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do are very different systems. While there is commonality of origins with GM HWANG, Kee, that is pretty much where it stops. Their curriculum are completely different.



And now you've gone completely off.
The only correct statement here is that the ITF was formed by one man - Gen CHOI, Hong Hi, after he split from the KTA for political reasons. (Although the ITF has splintered since the death of Gen CHOI, and there are now at least 3 groups purporting to be "the" ITF.) Everything else is wrong.
The WTF was not formed by any one man; it was formed by committee for one purpose and one purpose only: to oversee and promote tournaments using the ruleset developed for Olympic competition. That's it. Nothing more. The WTF has no curriculum. It awards no rank. There are no WTF schools because the only members of the WTF are national governing bodies that oversee Olympic-rules tournaments within a particular country. There is no such thing as "WTF taekwondo".
What you're saying about the WTF is a common misconception, but it's still wrong.

For the first part, this sort of how it was how it was explained to me. The majority of the forms we do are also in Moo Duk Kwan TSD as well as Karate Styles.

Second, I had thought WTF was founded by Un Yong Kim, but was later run by a committee. But, to be honest I'm no expert, so I'm glad to be corrected. The worst thing I could do is pass on false information :/

Finally, for future reference would "Sport TKD, which is overseen by the WTF" be a more correct way to describe it?

 

[Drose427]

Thank you so much!! I will make it my goal to achieve those things listed. Do you have any preference on gear? My school doesn't have a requirement for it so I wanted to ask. As sparring goes. Quick question: what are the regulations for sparring? Like where can I punch and kick? Can I punch? If so where on the body?

I only spar with our required gear (groin cup and headgear), but I'll have to start wearing gloves because I work with my hands so If I break them, Im in a lot of trouble. But, I've bruised and Broken my limbs sparring without gear. If that doesnt sound appetizing, you may wanna get shin pads or foot pads and gloves. As for regulations, you'd have to ask your instructor. They very greatly for schools.

 

[Dirty Dog]

For the first part, this sort of how it was how it was explained to me. The majority of the forms we do are also in Moo Duk Kwan TSD as well as Karate Styles.

What forms are those?

Second, I had thought WTF was founded by Un Yong Kim, but was later run by a committee. But, to be honest I'm no expert, so I'm glad to be corrected. The worst thing I could do is pass on false information :/

KIM, Un Yong served as president of the KKW and the WTF. There has always been a close relationship between the two. For one thing, up until quite recently, one of the requirements to compete in a WTF-sponsored tournament was a KKW Dan rank. The relationship has been fairly incestuous at times. But they've always been separate groups with their own goals. Similarly, if you look at corporate America, there are plenty of people who are on the Board of Directors of multiple corporations.

Finally, for future reference would "Sport TKD, which is overseen by the WTF" be a more correct way to describe it?

Close... the WTF oversees and promotes only the particular 'flavor' of sport TKD that is accepted as an Olympic event. Pretty much every TKD group practices some variety of sport TKD (any sparring is a sport, regardless of the particular rules used), but they're not all Olympic rules.

 

[Drose427]

3 Kee-Chos, Pyong-Ahs, Bassai, and then above my rank theres, NaranChi's, Jinto, and Kong Sang Koon (Spelling taken from the handbook so I doubt they're the proper spelling.) The Shorin-Ryu School in our area also does the Pyong-Ahns and Bassai, and I've meet Tang Soo Do Students who also do all the same forms, with slight differences in the movements.

As for the History, Thank you for correcting my misinformation! It's been really helpful in trying to get my head around how complex the various governing bodies and Politics of TKD can be

 

[Dirty Dog]

From the forms you practice, it's pretty clear to me that what you're training in isn't "essentially" TSD, it IS tang soo do. I suspect the school uses the name Taekwondo because it's more widely recognized, just as many Tae Kwon Do schools used "karate" back in The Day.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.