Ill Soo Shik - Instructor generation vs Student generation

Makalakumu

Gonzo Karate Apocalypse
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I wanted to throw this out to everyone since it was recently mentioned by several students. What would everyone think if some or all of the Ill Soo Shik required were set in the curriculum?

My teacher thinks that it is important for students to understand the applications of the forms...and so do I. His way of doing this is to have the students figure out the Ill Soo Shik on their own in order to come up with bunkai.

I've adopted this somewhat, although I have made it a tad more structured. I basically have a set of Ill Soo Shik already made that I use to teach students how to "read" the forms. I don't require these for testing, but I do use them as examples of what is possible.

I could easily make these formal or I could easily keep on doing what we're doing. It is also possible to blend the two approaches by making some formal and requiring a certain amount of student generation.

What do you think?
 
Some of my best "a-ha!" moments have come from times when my teacher will take a movement from a kata and tell us to explore possible applications or extensions. However, often as not, what we come up with is not a very good application :) but even that is a learning experience. So I like the idea of both. Maybe you know 10, show them 5, guide them to discover more, after their experiments, show them more.
 
I agree with David, that some should be set and then after they learn them and can have time to understand them, then they can make their own set, lets say maybe for the next belt? I think that it may be hard for students to pull deep applications out of the forms, I know I have trouble doing this and I can't imagine that I am the only one.
 
If I were to change things like this, I would wait until both you and Jeremiah have tested. The interesting thing is that it wouldn't really be a change. I have a set in mind that I already teach as "examples" so making that "formal" would really be no sweat. As it stands now, you both will be required to do what I have listed, but if you need to "rob me blind", then do so.

One of my objectives, however, is to make sure that students know how to look at forms and read them. By the time you hit chodan, this skill should be highly developed...because if you think that the forms that you are learning are hard, just wait until you see some of the forms that I'm practicing...;)

They are totally sweet!
 
I understand what you are saying, in that students should learn how to pick them out of forms. But a 1st grader isn't given a book and expected to know how to read it, let alone decifer a deeper meaning out of the book. I hope I don't sound rude, that is not my intention.
 
kid said:
I understand what you are saying, in that students should learn how to pick them out of forms. But a 1st grader isn't given a book and expected to know how to read it, let alone decifer a deeper meaning out of the book. I hope I don't sound rude, that is not my intention.

I understand what you are saying. Just make sure you come to class so that we can get your testing stuff taken care of. I'll be busting out a set of bunkai after that.
 
As a person who learns by doing, I greatly appreciate instructor generated Ill Soo Shik. I have always struggled with this aspect of martial arts, but have had many "aha" moments when actually doing ones that have been made for me. I am better able to create my own Ill Soo Shik because of this.
 
We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master.

- Ernest Hemingway
 
I usually search through various forms and pick out pieces of it that seem like they would be good Ill Soo Shik, figure out what attack they are blocking, and test it.

Ian:jedi1:
 
As an addition to my upper post, I just found one in Pyung Ahn Ee Dan.

Ian:jedi1:
 
IMP said:
As an addition to my upper post, I just found one in Pyung Ahn Ee Dan.

Ian:jedi1:

Could you describe it? Which move are you looking at?
 
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