Ignoring the science: Plan B as an aborticant.

[hardheadjarhead]

Plan B isn't an aborticant...but some don't pay attention to the science:

http://wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,67432,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_prev2


So...what is wrong with contraception, anyway? Are we still as a nation all that adverse to it?


Regards,


Steve

 

[c2kenpo]

Steve,

Its not about contraception its all about PERCEPTION. Yes the science is there but however even Myself find plan B to be reckless.

In todays world kids are having sex at much earlier ages then us, and the education given to parents and kids alike on the Use of Sex, Contraception, Consquences and Benefits. Amounts to almost nothing, (I have a 13yr old)
This is a time old agument that is not going to go away but here is the agument agasint Plan B not so much as a contraceptive but its UNINTENDED Consequences.

We talk about kids watching too much violence on TV and becoming desenseitised to the consequences of violence, Just turn on prime time TV Same goes with sex why the other night my son was watching (I was out and mom didn't pay attention) A show with Jim Belushi that in a matter of 10 min included direct visual focus on on a mans crotch in undewear and breast touching AS IF THIS IS APPRORIATE BEHAVIOUR. Of course I said something and handled the situation adequately. However with sex comes So many possible dangers that as grown adults we should be smart enought to ask things about our partners . Kids however may not be as wise and as cautious as us.

So if you give kids or youth of the world a method of birth control that doesn't require the use of a condom what are you saying? Well to some.. HEY ITS COOL!! And LOOK NO WORRIES!!! ....

Sry you lose... there are over 100 different sexually transmitted diseases out there and Plan B I feel simply even tho YES IT WORKS YES ITS CONTRACEPTION it can be taken and viewd as a very very bad security blanket to have unprotected sex. If education was better, and more information out there then yes perhaps but I would rather tote the benefits of protected sex vs. unprotected sex as a parent.

For you grown adults, You are smart enought to know the possible consquences of your actions, and if you don't then I suggest you read about the topic at hand before going on impluse.

JMHO

Dave

 

[michaeledward]

Dave,

It is about perception ... the right wing moral police want to create the impression that Plan B is an abortion; science be damned.

Yes .. our society is too much in the throws of sexual everything ... and you can't just change the channel anymore. --- as an aside, we spent a bit of time are Barnes and Noble tonight - the only book that vaguely interested me was 'SMUT - an insiders (and concerned parents) look at the sex industry' - or something like that ---

The people who coined the phrase 'Partial Birth Abortion' (a proceedure often used on a dead fetus - can a dead fetus be experience 'birth?) are attempting to create a similar view of Plan B and RU486 ....

I can't wait to see the arguments they bring forth when a male contraceptive arrives on the market.

M

 

[hardheadjarhead]

c2kenpo in bold:

In todays world kids are having sex at much earlier ages then us, and the education given to parents and kids alike on the Use of Sex, Contraception, Consquences and Benefits. Amounts to almost nothing, (I have a 13yr old)


Hence the need for education.


This is a time old agument that is not going to go away but here is the agument agasint Plan B not so much as a contraceptive but its UNINTENDED Consequences.

We talk about kids watching too much violence on TV and becoming desenseitised to the consequences of violence, Just turn on prime time TV Same goes with sex why the other night my son was watching (I was out and mom didn't pay attention) A show with Jim Belushi that in a matter of 10 min included direct visual focus on on a mans crotch in undewear and breast touching AS IF THIS IS APPRORIATE BEHAVIOUR. Of course I said something and handled the situation adequately. However with sex comes So many possible dangers that as grown adults we should be smart enought to ask things about our partners . Kids however may not be as wise and as cautious as us.


No kidding. This is why we sit down and talk to them about it.

As for breast touching being appropriate behavior or not...some tend to think it is. I do. I plan on doing some of that within the next eight hours if all plans for the weekend bear fruit. My point? Teenagers have been "petting" (which includes the old first base notion of breast touching) since the 1920's. Its a part of our teen culture. At some point a parent might want to include that in a family discussion...and I submit that ought to be before the kid has done it.

If you want to suggest to that child that this is inappropriate behavior, good luck. He doesn't need the internet, television, or movies to suggest to him that this is "appropriate." His friends at school will talk about it (as did my friends back in the sixties...well before the internet, t.v., or movies showed it). The locker-room will become a child's greatest educator if should leave this subject unattended, and the child's hormones will strongly advocate the boy or girl lend a willing ear to their friend's instruction.

We can't escape sex...and neither can our kids. We best deal with it.


So if you give kids or youth of the world a method of birth control that doesn't require the use of a condom what are you saying? Well to some.. HEY ITS COOL!! And LOOK NO WORRIES!!! ....


Dave, the very people who want to nix "Plan B" have been fighting condom distribution and usage since the Comstock era of the late nineteenth century. "Plan B" was designed for the woman who needs to increase her degree of security. I cite possible examples where such an option might be prudent:

1. She and her partner use a condom, and it doesn't appear to break. She (or perhaps he), being a reasonably educated person decides that the condom failure rate due, though low, is still unacceptable.

2. She and her partner discover the condom did in fact fail through breakage or by slipping off. The use "Plan B" to cover their bets.

3. She is raped.

4. She very irresponsibly becomes drunk, has unprotected sex against what would have been her sober better judgement, and upon arising the next day nurses both her hangover and her ego. She opts for "Plan B" to avoid the consequences of her indiscretion.

5. She forgets to take her birth control pill, and forgets that she forgot it. Having a teflon brain myself (though no uterus) I can understand how this can happen and know women who have been in that boat. One became pregnant and had an abortion. This was her second abortion, the first was the result of a rape. She was Catholic and both abortions tore into her soul. "Plan B" would have prevented all of this.


Sry you lose... there are over 100 different sexually transmitted diseases out there and Plan B I feel simply even tho YES IT WORKS YES ITS CONTRACEPTION it can be taken and viewd as a very very bad security blanket to have unprotected sex.


Nobody advocating "Plan B" is advocating unprotected sex. It is contraception, not disease control. Promoters of contraception have been advocates of safe sex for over a hundred years...well before the term was even coined.


If education was better, and more information out there then yes perhaps but I would rather tote the benefits of protected sex vs. unprotected sex as a parent.


This isn't about unprotected sex. This isn't about unprotected sex. This isn't about unprotected sex.

And YES, education would be a wonderful addition...again the promoters of contraception have been the top endorsers of sex education since the nineteenth century. Further, they've been resisted every step of the way by those that wish to bar condom usage, sex education, and contraception.


For you grown adults, You are smart enought to know the possible consquences of your actions, and if you don't then I suggest you read about the topic at hand before going on impluse.


Start with this: "Not In Front Of The Children: 'Indecency, Censorship, and the Innocence of Youth," by Marjorie Heinz. Its a first rate treatment of the issue of the struggle for 1st Amendment rights in this country and chronicles the struggle for progressive sex education.


Regards,



Steve

 

[Cryozombie]

Personally, even as a Christian, I don't have any problem with the "morning after pills" or "plan B" contraceptives... etc.

I think those are excellent methods of SECONDARY contraceptions...

I don't think they should be used as a primary contraceptive...

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Personally, even as a Christian, I don't have any problem with the "morning after pills" or "plan B" contraceptives... etc.

I think those are excellent methods of SECONDARY contraceptions...

I don't think they should be used as a primary contraceptive...

Hence the name "Plan B," which denotes their intended secondary use as a back-up. It'd be pretty silly to use them as a primary, given that they stop ovulation. If ovulation occurs prior to intercourse, "Plan B" will do nothing to prevent pregnancy. Most people will know this. Those that don't will quickly find out, and I suspect many will learn from another's stupidity.

It increases options. It prevents pregnancies. It will prevent abortions.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Phoenix44]

Just a point of information:

Condoms, used perfectly, are 97% effective in preventing pregnancy
Diaphragm, with perfect use, is 94% effective.
Cervical cap, with perfect use, 74-91%
The Pill, 95% effective.

With typical use, efficacy rates are lower.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Anyone well-educated in how the "Plan B" type pill(s) work, and/or has spoken to someone about the side effects, knows that it is not a super-convenient thing, like a *preventative* measure would be. Condom? Take 20 seconds to put one on.

From the women I've spoken to who have educated people about things like RU-486, and/or have taken it themselves, it will make you feel really lousy for several days, and (possibly) experience a heavy and also unpleasant period.
I think it's a useful option to have - I think, as with most things, making people aware of their options - and which will be most healthful for them (hello, barrier method!) - will not lead people *stampeding* to a "Plan B", but perhaps (perhaps idealistically) work harder on their Plan(s) A.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

"The Pro-Life Action League"? Seriously, what comic book were they reading when they came up with that name? I'm wondering if they have capes and rubber masks. But more seriously, any supposed pharmeceudical group that has the phrase "Pro-Life" in its name just cannot be taken seriously as a medical institution.

 

[c2kenpo]

Steve,

No need to quote you as we seem to be in agreement. My main response was the lack of people looking at the science and WHY they skip the science.

We know it works it just the possible concerns that come from the unintended consequences we discussed. I was never once saying Plan B is a bad product or idea,

And yes I do talk to my kids, and I know all the things that go on in schools etc etc, but as an educator do you know how many kids DON"T have parents talking to them?? Thier WHOLE education comes from TV / Movies. Games/ Locker Room.

Contraceptive makers I know have been promoting proper sex education for years and I am Behind them 100% . I just have a concern when one of my coworkers mentions this product to me and says how nice it would be to get rid of the condom. So my concern is not that the contraceptive makers are promoting this as a solution, I agreed with every one of your cited examples. My concern is that the people out there seem to forget the possibilites of other consequences other then children.

Just becasue we can do something doenst neccesarily mean we should. However we are very implusive when it comes to our desires and our passions. *raises hand*

Fiesty mouse said it best


QUOTE]think it's a useful option to have - I think, as with most things, making people aware of their options - and which will be most healthful for them (hello, barrier method!) - will not lead people *stampeding* to a "Plan B", but perhaps (perhaps idealistically) work harder on their Plan(s) A.[/QUOTE]


Honestly in short my whole post simply put says.
Know all the options and think out all the consequences.

TALK TO YOUR KIDS ABOUT SEX!! BEFORE THEY TALK TO YOU ABOUT CHILDREN OR SOMETHING ELSE.

 

[raedyn]

I don't think they should be used as a primary contraceptive...

No, certainly not. Neither do the manufacturers or the people prescribing them. In several Canadian provinces, Plan B is available withOUT a perscription, because the sooner this drug is taken, the more effective it is. There is a special mandatory counselling session with your pharmacist before s/he can distribute this behind-the-counter drug. They ask the woman if she was using another form of contraception at the time, and talk to her about other contraceptive options for the future. They say that this does not provide protection against STDs, and recommend STD testing. They inform you that the more often you use this pill, the less effective it is.

Let's be clear. This is NOT the same as RU-486, which IS an abortion pill that is not available in the US but approved for use in many other countries including Canada. Plan B is nearly the same chemical compounds as found in your typical daily birth control pill, but in a higher dosage.

It is meant as emergency contraception. And where I live, this is the title that Planned Parenthood and sexual health education groups use to describe it. Because it is not just a morning after pill. It can be taken for up to 72 hours after intercourse, though the effectiveness decreases as time passes. It is meant for cases of rape, or when other contraception fails - like a condom breaking or slipping off.

It's also much more expensive than other birth control. One dosage of Plan B costs roughly the same as 2 months of the Pill. To top it all off, as Feisty said, it has more undesirable side effects than other birth control options do. Like intense nausea & headaches, for example (though, as with all drugs, this varies from patient to patient).