I want some opinions...

[Archangel M]

Pay for an attorney?

Lack of insurance equal to drunk driving?

Pay up the other guy no matter what the bill may have been padded/run up to?

I don't know what the laws are in your state, but I wouldn't suggest any of em where I live...

Here a PDO (property damage only) accident on private property, below the mandatory reporting threshold and both parties exchanged info on their own...its a civil matter.

Id tell the guy he was getting paid when I had the money or he could take some small payments now and the rest when I got the money. If he didn't like it he could take me to small claims court. With an LE witness to his lack of insurance...I don't see that happening. The cost of an attorney on something like this is foolish IMO.

Another option is to call YOUR insurance company and explain the situation.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

But Cryo tried to work with the man to put things right and how the man is trying to defraud Cryo. I consider that a crime because it's intentional. Cryo had an *accident.*

How is he trying to defraud Cryo? He said he wants 2/3 of the money he paid to have his car fixed, right? Did I read that wrong?

I suppose if you have a crapload of money to just fly at the whim of everyone you jostle wrongly that's fine - throw your money at it by all means. But I think this involves standing up for what's right on ALL sides of the soccer ball.

I don't have a crapload of money, not by a longshot. I'd have called my insurance company and notified them immediately, and had him deal with them. Then it would not be my problem. Since he didn't, he's going to lose any court confrontation - he is at fault and admits it. Judge will say "Pay da man!"

 

[Archangel M]

Absolutely Cryo will have to pay..nobody has said otherwise. But if he believes that hes being "taken" then the other guy will have to show his proof in court.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Absolutely Cryo will have to pay..nobody has said otherwise. But if he believes that hes being "taken" then the other guy will have to show his proof in court.

Nope. The only fact the judge will be interested in is who is at fault. Cyro is and admits it. That's all.

 

[Archangel M]

Not in any case I have ever seen....If the guy is asking for $20,000 in repairs on a 1977 Vega Cryo just has to pay up? I hope he backs into my car soon. LOL!

I dont think so. The judge will assess the claim and make judgment. He may very well have to pay the claim, but it isnt that cut and dry.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Not in any case I have ever seen....If the guy is asking for $20,000 in repairs on a 1977 Vega Cryo just has to pay up? Dont think so. The judge will assess the claim and make judgment. He may very well have to pay the claim, but it isnt that cut and dry.

That's what I said. The judge will most likely look at the receipt. But it would have to be outrageous on the face of it before a judge would ignore it and award a different amount. Without an estimate, Cyro has nothing to introduce to show that the amount is out of whack. He's going to lose.

But hey - let's wait and see, eh? I don't mind, it's not my ***.

 

[Archangel M]

If the other dude is that hard up for cash he probably couldnt afford the filing fee anyway.

 

[Dao]

Bill Mattocks you are right he is at fault. And he should have reported the insurance company. But I wouldn't pay without getting other estimates. The job could have been done cheaper for same quality.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

But I wouldn't pay without getting other estimates.

A) Too late now, the work has been done.
B) The injured party is not required to comply with the first party's demands in a private dispute of this nature.

The job could have been done cheaper for same quality.

Maybe. No way to prove it now.

Look at it this way - let's say someone drove over your foot. He wants you to see several doctors, get the cheapest price, and then he'll pay to have your foot fixed at the cheapest one. Now how reasonable does it sound?

 

[shesulsa]

Cryo - I would still give him one more chance to make it right. But if he doesn't, then get his insurance information and report the incident to your insurance company.

 

[Archangel M]

Gotta start with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer, and if you want legal advice, talk to an attorney.

Now... the things as I cop I'd be looking at are whether or not he was on private property when he was parked. It sounds like he was. Second question: what sort of "no parking?" Fire zone or some other "official" zone, or property owner convenience?

It's not hit and run; you notified him and tried to work with him. He wasn't driving, so laws requiring insurance may not be in play. (Depends on exactly what they say.) So, you're clearly into civil law zone.

My guess is that a civil court would hold you partly at fault, and him partly at fault. The fact that he wasn't insured and was parked improperly weighs against him. As does a 1 AM phone call about it. The fact that you notified him, and were willing to accept responsibility works for you. Were it to go to trial (probably small claims)... my unofficial "People's Court" guess is that you'd be responsible for either your deductible, or maybe an amount based on some reasonable repair estimates (who says his uncle really only fixed that damage -- or really charged him what he's claiming, my cynical cop mind asks), maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of the cost.

This advice is sound IMO.....Id be curious to see what this uncle would present as proof of cost too.

On a separate issue, the common "ask your attorney" reply you get on almost all internet discussion forums is a bit too simple. You have to figure out the cost of an attorney vs. what you are going to be "out" if you loose a civil case. In this case it would just be throwing your money away IMO. If the guy was IN the car and suing you for personal injury...THATS a whole other ball game. If you could face a criminal charge thats a whole other matter too.

 

[Archangel M]

That is unless your relative or friend is an attorney, then by all means...lucky you.

 

[MJS]

Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police! There could be a minor scratch on the surface, but major damage underneath that we cant see.

The fact that it happened on private property will effect whether or not police action can be taken, due to the fact that it happened on private property. Of course, this will vary from state to state, dept to dept. My PD goes to private prop. accidents, but its rare that action other than documentation, is taken.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police! There could be a minor scratch on the surface, but major damage underneath that we cant see.

The fact that it happened on private property will effect whether or not police action can be taken, due to the fact that it happened on private property. Of course, this will vary from state to state, dept to dept. My PD goes to private prop. accidents, but its rare that action other than documentation, is taken.

Good advice. Even if a field interview is made, or even just a record in the blotter of the call being made.

 

[jks9199]

Not in any case I have ever seen....If the guy is asking for $20,000 in repairs on a 1977 Vega Cryo just has to pay up? I hope he backs into my car soon. LOL!

I dont think so. The judge will assess the claim and make judgment. He may very well have to pay the claim, but it isnt that cut and dry.

Under civil law -- the costs can be split based on each party's liability. Cryo will likely have to pay some of it. (And has never denied his responsibility to do so!) But the facts in evidence here suggest that the car's owner contributed to the situation in three ways; he parked improperly, he failed to have insurance, and he got the car fixed on his own without consulting Cryo. The car owner may find himself having to eat the difference between either Cryo's deductable or any difference (if any) between what his uncle charged (still skeptical on that...) and a reasonable rate from another shop.

 

[jks9199]

This advice is sound IMO.....Id be curious to see what this uncle would present as proof of cost too.

On a separate issue, the common "ask your attorney" reply you get on almost all internet discussion forums is a bit too simple. You have to figure out the cost of an attorney vs. what you are going to be "out" if you loose a civil case. In this case it would just be throwing your money away IMO. If the guy was IN the car and suing you for personal injury...THATS a whole other ball game. If you could face a criminal charge thats a whole other matter too.

The main reason for the "consult an attorney" here is to make it clear that I'm NOT practicing law, and am not qualified to do so. I'm just offering my best guess, based on my own training and experience.

If your liberty is at stake -- my advice is ALWAYS to get the best possible attorney you can, even if you have to go into debt to do so. (Note that the best attorney is not necessarily the most expensive! But it's seldom the cheapest.)

 

[jks9199]

Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police! There could be a minor scratch on the surface, but major damage underneath that we cant see.

The fact that it happened on private property will effect whether or not police action can be taken, due to the fact that it happened on private property. Of course, this will vary from state to state, dept to dept. My PD goes to private prop. accidents, but its rare that action other than documentation, is taken.

Not really...

Private property, no injuries... my agency may send a cop, if you really insist. And the cop'll get there, help you exchange info, and leave. How you resolve it is between you and the insurance companies. Another agency in my area won't even send a cop, unless you're fighting or there's some other reason.

 

[Archangel M]

The main reason for the "consult an attorney" here is to make it clear that I'm NOT practicing law, and am not qualified to do so. I'm just offering my best guess, based on my own training and experience.

If your liberty is at stake -- my advice is ALWAYS to get the best possible attorney you can, even if you have to go into debt to do so. (Note that the best attorney is not necessarily the most expensive! But it's seldom the cheapest.)

Absolutely JKS..I was referring more to some of the earlier "get an attorney" comments than to yours though. I see what you mean.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Under civil law -- the costs can be split based on each party's liability.

Yes.

Cryo will likely have to pay some of it. (And has never denied his responsibility to do so!)

I think Cryo will have to pay all of it.

But the facts in evidence here suggest that the car's owner contributed to the situation in three ways; he parked improperly, he failed to have insurance, and he got the car fixed on his own without consulting Cryo.

Parking improperly contributed to the accident how? The car leapt out and hit Cryo's? His failure to have insurance contributed to the accident how?

As to his getting the car fixed on his own - in the states I am familiar with, the victim is not required to get estimates, not required to get the vehicle repaired where the insurance company (or in this case, Cryo) wants him to, and does not even have to get an appraisal before getting the vehicle repaired.

If Cryo thinks he has a tort for inflated claims, he can pursue it. He may also raise it with the judge in a civil small-claims court, and the judge may consider the cost - but it will be difficult to prove overcharging without an appraisal, which now cannot be done.

In addition, the victim, as I undersand it, isn't even asking for 100% of the amount paid to repair the damage, is he?

The car owner may find himself having to eat the difference between either Cryo's deductable or any difference (if any) between what his uncle charged (still skeptical on that...) and a reasonable rate from another shop.

Nope. He sues, he wins. But let's see how this plays out.

 

[Archangel M]

Of course if the guy sues Cryo hes gonna win...Cryo hit his car....its the issue of damages everybody here is talking about. If the the judge finds Cryo has to pay in full hes no worse off..if its shown that the bill was jacked up Cryo pays a more fair ammount.

Personally, Id call my insurance co. and tell them. Unless a possible increase in rate would add up to more than what I would pay out of pocket. Same thing as the attorney issue. Do the math....