I Need A Differential

[OnlyAnEgg]

I'm curious (not yellow): Is Shaolin considered a school, encompassing multiple styles or is it a style itself? Contemporary schools/styles, I mean, not historical differentials.

I ask because I am considering CMA in a neighboring city. The school, Wu-Xing, is a PCCMA member. My contact with them has yeilded some smattering of information...enough to bring me up there to speak with them and observe a class.

Is there a School/Style issue or am I being over-cautious?

Edit: Jef Naayers is the Headmaster over all the schools, according to their email.

 

[Flying Crane]

Boy, there is NOTHING on that website. Not helpful.

One thing to ask them: are they teaching Traditional Chinese martial arts, or Modern Wushu?

If it is Modern Wushu, then you will learn flashy, fancy forms for competition and performance, but there will be little by way of understanding the usefulness of any of it. In fact, much of it may not be useful at all, in exchange for its beauty and flash.

If it is Traditional Martial arts, then the training will be heavily focused on forms, but there will also be a focus on understanding the usefulness of the movements within the forms and how to apply it. The forms may be very interesting, but not as flashy and dazzling as Modern Wushu.

There are many styles that fall under the "Shaolin" umbrella. Some are northern shaolin (like Shaolin Longfist) and others are southern shaolin (like Hung Gar). These are styles that trace their roots back to the Shaolin temples. This would be another question to ask them, so that you know what you would be studying. They may offer several.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

The answer to that question is what prompted my request for info.

They state they teach Traditional Northern Preying Mantis and Traditional Northern Shaolin. I have some idea what the Mantis style is, from information on this board and web research. I have yet to find a clear, satisfactory answer to what Traditional Shaolin is.

 

[Flying Crane]

The answer to that question is what prompted my request for info.

They state they teach Traditional Northern Preying Mantis and Traditional Northern Shaolin. I have some idea what the Mantis style is, from information on this board and web research. I have yet to find a clear, satisfactory answer to what Traditional Shaolin is.

Probably Shaolin Longfist. It is a primary style, what one usually thinks of as "shaolin". Ten hand sets, and 18 weapons, I believe. Often, additional stuff will be taught within this context as well. The Chinese arts can be a bit more loosely structured in this way. There is more borrowing from other styles. While a teacher may profess to teach X style, and this may be the main thing in the program, there is often material from Y, Z, and A,B, and C styles mixed in as well.

This might give you some more info so you can ask some more specific questions. Ask what exactly they mean by "shaolin". Ask if it is the Longfist as I described, or something else? Might be Lohan or another Northern Shaolin system like that.

Make sure you are clear that it is not Modern Wushu. This stuff is based on traditional martial arts, and might mix a bit of the traditional stuff in with it, but done with a Modern focus. Don't be deceived. Ask that question directly. Make sure you know for sure.

 

[AceHBK]

Boy, there is NOTHING on that website. Not helpful.

One thing to ask them: are they teaching Traditional Chinese martial arts, or Modern Wushu?

If it is Modern Wushu, then you will learn flashy, fancy forms for competition and performance, but there will be little by way of understanding the usefulness of any of it. In fact, much of it may not be useful at all, in exchange for its beauty and flash.

If it is Traditional Martial arts, then the training will be heavily focused on forms, but there will also be a focus on understanding the usefulness of the movements within the forms and how to apply it. The forms may be very interesting, but not as flashy and dazzling as Modern Wushu.

There are many styles that fall under the "Shaolin" umbrella. Some are northern shaolin (like Shaolin Longfist) and others are southern shaolin (like Hung Gar). These are styles that trace their roots back to the Shaolin temples. This would be another question to ask them, so that you know what you would be studying. They may offer several.

very informative. thank you

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Yes...I've seen Wushu and, although it is (as you've said) flashy, I've not seen that it is anything beyond a performance art. I could be wrong.

I plan on meeting with the school some time post 2/18. I have home issues to tend to first.

I've sent an email asking these questions. I will also quiz them again when we meet.

 

[Andrew Green]

I'm curious (not yellow): Is Shaolin considered a school, encompassing multiple styles or is it a style itself? Contemporary schools/styles, I mean, not historical differentials.

To be perfectly honest, in a modern sense it really doesn't mean anything. People are using it largely as a marketing word or to reference a training philosophy and not to designate a specific thing nowadays.

Basically the theory goes, All Kung fu came from shaolin, karate came from kung fu. So anything that is either karate or kung fu can be called Shaolin, which people will associate with "really good stuff" and come give us money.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes...I've seen Wushu and, although it is (as you've said) flashy, I've not seen that it is anything beyond a performance art. I could be wrong.

I plan on meeting with the school some time post 2/18. I have home issues to tend to first.

I've sent an email asking these questions. I will also quiz them again when we meet.

Right-on. Let us know what you find out.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

So anything that is either karate or kung fu can be called Shaolin, which people will associate with "really good stuff" and come give us money.

And that is my greatest concern; that it's all just a come-on. As much as I enjoy my karate training, I've been drawn to CMA for whatever reason and I'm hoping this school is real and not a McKwoon.

 

[Flying Crane]

To be perfectly honest, in a modern sense it really doesn't mean anything. People are using it largely as a marketing word or to reference a training philosophy and not to designate a specific thing nowadays.

Basically the theory goes, All Kung fu came from shaolin, karate came from kung fu. So anything that is either karate or kung fu can be called Shaolin, which people will associate with "really good stuff" and come give us money.

Yes, and this is an incorrect notion. Chinese martial arts existed long before Shaolin came into prominence, and continued to exist unconnected to Shaolin at all times. It can be used as a marketing ploy, but it can also be a legitimate "Shaolin" art.

The Shaolin temple traces the roots of its martial arts to the arrival of Damo, who created exercises to strengthen the Monks for their Buddhist meditation. These exercises gradually developed into a comprehensive fighting system. Or so the story goes. I won't comment on whether or not this is a true story, but it is what has been handed down as the Shaolin Creation mythology.

Later, the Temple became a refuge for those who were politically persecuted. They entered the temple and disguised themselves as monks to avoid the oppressive governments that found themselves in power. Many of these people brought martial training with them into the temple. These arts were practiced at the temple, taught to others, and became part of the larger group of arts known as "shaolin". These arts continued to grow and blend with other arts that were brought in. This is why many arts claim to trace their roots to Shaolin, and call themselves a "shaolin art."

It is hard to know for sure which arts can truly make this claim. Many do as a prestige thing, even if it may not be historically accurate. But certainly there are many arts that can legitimately make this claim.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Understood. I know the myth of MA derivation from Shaolin. I say myth only because many use Shaolin as it's source; but, not often with a clear connection as none can really be made.

I'm looking at this school, fully aware it could all be marketing. I'm simply hoping it is not.

 

[AceHBK]

I feel your pain brother

 

[Gary Crawford]

I hope this turns out to be a good place for you. I have personally trained as a guest at many schools who use the term "shoalin" and the one thing I have found in common is the different animal styles they teach within the schools. I am currently associated with a school that teaches them. What I do like about it is that some animals fit personalities better than others. After training in "crane"(for example) for a long time,you can switch to "boar" or one of the other styles to keep learning something new. Sparring with the different animal styles is extremely chalenging to say the least! The disadvantage is that there are inconsistant standards.

 

[clfsean]

Oh... Jef Naayers... ex-Wah Lum guy.

The forms will be fun & you'll get a helluva workout.

 

[dmax999]

From what I have seen, with some exceptions, is Shaolin tends to be hunderds of different martial arts which are all extremely similar in the beginning. Right now I am taking Eagle Claw and Mizong-Lohan, but the school calls itself Shaolin.

You can expect a set of stances similar to what I have, plus or minus a couple with many of them having different names. You can also expect the basic drills to be exactly the same as I do. As you advance to higher levels the individual differneces between the arts begin to diverge more and more. Our two styles at black belt are extremely differnt, but earlier level basics are nearly exactly the same.

You said you take karate. When you see a school named "Karate" what do you know about it? You know the basics will be the same everywhere, the advanced stuff will change depending on the style. I think Shaolin schools tend to be the same way in the US.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Thanks for your input, everyone.

My last email from the school states that Traditional Northern Shaolin, there, is long fist, lohan and 'many other styles within the Shaolin framework'. I believe they have been open enough and provided enough general information to warrant the hour trip to visit and discuss the school further.

Oh... Jef Naayers... ex-Wah Lum guy.

The forms will be fun & you'll get a helluva workout.

Yeah...in fact, the school's recently changed it's name from Wah-Lum Columbus to Wu-Xing

You said you take karate. When you see a school named "Karate" what do you know about it?

Beyond origins in Japan or Okinawa? Absolutely nothing. The style of karate I take now is derived from Shotokan; but, it is not Shotokan. I understand how this applies in a general sense.

I am looking forward to visiting the school. It's time for a change.