I Love My Town

[tellner]

And yes, oh Moderators, I called up the Mercury and got their permission to post this excerpt

This heart-warming story from the Portland Mercury, a local weekly free paper

A CITIZEN who watched a cop illegally park, then walk into a Chinese restaurant to wait for his food, has issued the officer a series of citizen-initiated parking violations.
...
Stensgaard walked into the restaurant wearing his police uniform, but did not make any arrests or citations. Instead, he turned his attention to the basketball game on television, according to Bryant. When Bryant asked Stensgaard about his vehicle, Stensgaard allegedly acknowledged being in a no-parking zone but asked Bryant, "If someone broke into your house, would you rather have the police be able to park in front of your house or have to park three blocks away and walk there?"

"If he had acknowledged and corrected his error, we could have avoided this whole thing," says Bryant. "But instead, he kept watching basketball and told me he wasn't doing anything wrong."

Now, using ORS 153.058, Bryant—as a private citizen—has initiated violation proceedings against Officer Stensgaard

...

"Citizens should be concerned that he used his status as an officer of the law as justification for breaking the law," he says.

Absolutely perfect. He knew his rights. He tried to resolve the situation reasonably. The officer couldn't be bothered to obey the law, offered the a line of BS and has to suffer the consequences of his actions just like *gasp* a mere lowly civilian.

 

[arnisador]

Heh, this is great! No one is above the law.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You don't need permission to post an excerpt. That comes under Fair Use. Posting the whole thing requires -written- permission since anyone can say they got the verbal. As in court, verbal doesnt usually count.

As to the situation in question, all I can say is, good. There is a difference between "Im in a hurry to eat" and "Im in a hurry to save your ***." I'll forgive the latter.

 

[shesulsa]

I see stuff like that happen all too often. It's usually officers not wanting to wait for the red light to turn green flashing their lights to get through the intersection without waiting. I've seen police cars parked in handicapped spots (disgusting) too.

The term "emergency parking" has the word "emergency" in it for a reason. I guess watching the game was this officer's emergency. :idunno:

I *really* wish officers who do this would re-think it. If they are a good cop then this sends the wrong message. If they're a bad cop they make good cops look bad.

 

[Twin Fist]

I *really* wish officers who do this would re-think it. If they are a good cop then this sends the wrong message. If they're a bad cop they make good cops look bad.

agreed

 

[Cryozombie]

See... now... when I posted a photo of a cop doing this sorta thing at the Hospital because he was hanging out in the security office here as they often do... I was attacked for being wrong minded about what cops should be able to do...

 

[MA-Caver]

That citizens have the right to issue citations against those who uphold/defend the law is probably the issue. I agree they were correct in doing so. Who else would? Another officer?
Maybe, or simply go inside and talk to them about it. If they gotten the same response would the officer DO anything? That is a good question isn't it? Probably depends upon the officer doesn't it?
Writing up your fellow LEO is probably the right (moral) thing to do but I would think that it would not be looked upon favorably by the others unless they are of like mind that no-one... not even them is above the law.

 

[Big Don]

The bad thing: This guy will be known to every cop in town forever, as the "Smart *** punk that ticketed good old Stensgaard" That might not be a good thing for him. Yes, he did the right thing, but, it may be a hard road ahead for him.

 

[newGuy12]

???

I thought that you could park a police car anywhere. Is this not true? I thought that the line of reasoning is this -- what if this guy is in there, watching tv (or doing anything else, it does not matter) -- and then something happens and this police officer had to get somewhere very quickly.

I thought that this is why you can park the police car anywhere -- the police officer might need to get to the car RIGHT NOW.

 

[arnisador]

See... now... when I posted a photo of a cop doing this sorta thing at the Hospital because he was hanging out in the security office here as they often do... I was attacked for being wrong minded about what cops should be able to do...

In fairness, a police officer visiting a hospital's security office is more ambiguous than one parking illegally to get lunch. Not that that couldn't be abusive too, but it's much less clear-cut.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

See... now... when I posted a photo of a cop doing this sorta thing at the Hospital because he was hanging out in the security office here as they often do... I was attacked for being wrong minded about what cops should be able to do...

I remember that thread clearly. No one attacked you. The difference between that argument and this one is that you have a sign, posted and enforced by the city, in compliance with state law. The other was more accurately described as a request, enforceable by civil punishment.

I *really* wish officers who do this would re-think it. If they are a good cop then this sends the wrong message. If they're a bad cop they make good cops look bad.

If one doctor does something bad, does it make every good doctor look bad? If one garbage worker dumps trash on the street, do you assume that every garbage worker does as well. Why is it that police officers always get lumped together like this when no other profession seems to.

The bad thing: This guy will be known to every cop in town forever, as the "Smart *** punk that ticketed good old Stensgaard" That might not be a good thing for him. Yes, he did the right thing, but, it may be a hard road ahead for him.

Yes, I guess every cop is a retaliatory S.O.B. Because of his actions, he is doomed to be harassed by every cop for the rest of time?

By this thread, one would believe that none here believes that cops do anything right. I do not believe that to be the case necessarily, but examine what is being said and you will see how one could draw that conclusion.


In terms of the complaintant, I think he is doing it to stir the pot, so to speak. Look at it in this way: a citizen parks in a No Parking Zone, what happens? He gets, what, a $35 parking ticket. According to this article, the officer is looking at having to pay $540. In what way is that fair, as the majority seem to want.

Lets look at this a few other ways as well. If an emergency call for service does happen, where seconds matter, do you want an officer to have to, perhaps, squeeze in between several parked cars, however far away, just to get to his patrol vehicle? Or would you want it to be convienent for him to get there?

Heres another position? If you believe that all cops should face a $540 fine for illegal parking, should officers then cite every vehicle they stop, or that they see illegally parked, regardless of circumstances? Or would you rather the officer not use any discretionary powers at all?

I know the majority of people will simply say that I am making excuses for the behavior. So be it. But there are real considerations to be understood.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I don't see it as excuses, your points are valid.

Here's my take on it:
Those entrusted to enforce the law, must operate within the law and not be above it.

Based on my observation of the actions of LEOs in WNY, the following seems to be the rules:
- I must stop for red lights. A cop can run them at will.
- I must wear a seat belt. A cop is exempt from that law.
- I must use a hands free kit on my cell phone. A cop is exempt from that law.
- I can't park for "just a minute" in a No-Parking spot. A cop is exempt from that law.
- I can't park in a handicap space without a special tag. A cop is exempt from that.
- I must comply with the speed limit. A cop is exempt.
- I must signal lane changes. A cop is exempt.

There is a difference between "in the course of doing their duty" and "because he can".

You can ask "what if he needed to get to his car in a hurry", which is a valid question. My counter is, "that area was declared no-parking for a reason, maybe fire codes, maybe traffic flow, etc. In a true emergency, his car could become a danger."

Should a cop be held to a higher standard? Honestly, I think so. I also think that -anyone- in a position of authority, of leadership, of responsibility also should be held to a higher standard.

I think cops do a thankless task that I'm glad they are there to do, and that most are decent hard working men and women. I also know there are a few bad apples in the mix, and they do cause problems for the rest. I've dealt with both, and much prefer the honest majority, many of whom I call friend. Hopefully that puts my position in perspective.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I don't see it as excuses, your points are valid.

Here's my take on it:
Those entrusted to enforce the law, must operate within the law and not be above it.

Based on my observation of the actions of LEOs in WNY, the following seems to be the rules:
- I must stop for red lights. A cop can run them at will.
- I must wear a seat belt. A cop is exempt from that law.
- I must use a hands free kit on my cell phone. A cop is exempt from that law.
- I can't park for "just a minute" in a No-Parking spot. A cop is exempt from that law.
- I can't park in a handicap space without a special tag. A cop is exempt from that.
- I must comply with the speed limit. A cop is exempt.
- I must signal lane changes. A cop is exempt.

Part of the problem is, is that you dont always know why a cop is doing what he is doing. One thing we do, is actually risk our careers for civilians. For instance, I have run with the lights and sirens without authorization to get to a call faster. I have run red lights in order to get to a call faster.

I have to run in for a minute on the way to calls for service to get water on an extremely hot day, or to use the bathroom. So I park in the emergency vehicle lane.

I dont signal lane changes because I specifically do not want people to know where I am going. Cops have been followed and ambushed. Signals are a way of telegraphing where I am going.

If I have to park in a handicap zone, I will to assist others. Thankfully, I dont have to do that one often. Just a pet peeve for me is all.

In California, a cop is legislatively exempt from wearing a seat belt. But consider that I may have to get out of the car quickly to render assistance.

I am often ordered to contact my station or supervisor. If I am on a radio call, should I then pull over so that I can contact them and delay my response time?

There is a difference between "in the course of doing their duty" and "because he can".

The point is you never can tell when hes working or its because he can.

You can ask "what if he needed to get to his car in a hurry", which is a valid question. My counter is, "that area was declared no-parking for a reason, maybe fire codes, maybe traffic flow, etc. In a true emergency, his car could become a danger."

I park in no parking zones / illegally all the time at work. Yes, sometimes even to grab food. Often times, I dont get an official lunch due to call volume. Consider that I am intelligent enough to know when and where to do so. It is not always convienent (yes, I said it) to park in a proper parking spot while performing my duties.

Should a cop be held to a higher standard? Honestly, I think so. I also think that -anyone- in a position of authority, of leadership, of responsibility also should be held to a higher standard.

I understand that. And I dont have a problem with that. But, understand that there are things that we do, that at a glance, would seem wrong or improper. Sometimes they are for the help of others, which is usually the case in my department. And understand that there are things that we do that you will probably not understand, and for some people, no amount of reasoning would asuage those feelings.

I think cops do a thankless task that I'm glad they are there to do, and that most are decent hard working men and women. I also know there are a few bad apples in the mix, and they do cause problems for the rest. I've dealt with both, and much prefer the honest majority, many of whom I call friend. Hopefully that puts my position in perspective.

And I agree with your perspective, to some degree. But again, dont judge all cops on the basis of the one or three jerks people have had to deal with. Just as you wouldnt want to be judged on the basis of others in your profession.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Just wanted to add a few things. I am gonna ask forgiveness and say its gonna be a rant. Due to this, some of the things I may say are not necessarily going to reflect my complete feelings on the matter. Here goes:

I would not have had so much of an issue with this thread if it had not been started, nor received the comments some have made. I would much rather, and appreciated, a posting of the article, and then something like this:

It is unfortunate that a citizen feels the need to start criminal proceedings against a police officer as a civilian, rather then the officer following the same rules as everyone else. It may seem like a small thing, violation of a No Parking sign. But as an officer is expected to set an example for members of society, it would behoove him to follow the same rules as anyone else.


But that is not what we see, is it. We get a smart aleky comment by the thread starter. Which leads me to thing that this is not about the officer really doing something wrong, but more of a, Ha, Ha, you got in trouble comment. Instead of looking upon the situation as something to be saddened by, it gets laughed at. Absolutely amazing. And by those posting the smart-a@@ comments, from what I have seen in some of their postings in other threads, it is not surprising that they have done so.

You know, no one has a problem with someone from Nordstroms getting a 40% discount on items sold in their store, nor someonw from McDonalds getting discounted/free food. Yes, one of the fringe benefits of being a police officer and driving a patrol car is that you get to park in a No Parking Zone, if one could really call that a perk. Gee, look at me, Im parking in a No Parking Zone in a police car, how cool am I.

I will get off my rant now.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

You know, no one has a problem with someone from Nordstroms getting a 40% discount on items sold in their store, nor someonw from McDonalds getting discounted/free food. Yes, one of the fringe benefits of being a police officer and driving a patrol car is that you get to park in a No Parking Zone, if one could really call that a perk. Gee, look at me, Im parking in a No Parking Zone in a police car, how cool am I.

Those discounts are offered by Nordstrom's and McDonald's as a thank-you to the officers for what they do. I don't think anyone complained about them getting perks, it was more that the officer'd broke the law, albeit through a relatively minor civil infraction, and presumed that nobody would complain because he was a cop. Thankfully, somebody did.

 

[Sukerkin]

Some very good, cogent posts, giving both sides of the coin an airing in this thread - well done all.

Mind you, it did give my mind a bit of a whipsawing as I would read one post, go "Quite right!"; then read the next one and go "Quite right!" again ... the problem? The posts were from contrary stances :lol:.

I can't add anything to the major points that have been covered so far but I would just like answer Kenpo's question about 'do all members of a publically visible profession get tarred by the same brush if a few are observed to behave badly?'.

To me this is a truism and I'm puzzled why you would think otherwise? A few bad apples might not actually spoil the whole barrel when it comes to professions but public perception is certainly tainted - most especially if the media has a field day on something.

 

[Cryozombie]

I dont signal lane changes because I specifically do not want people to know where I am going. Cops have been followed and ambushed. Signals are a way of telegraphing where I am going...

So have White people in my neighborhood... I'll try that as an excuse and get back to you on how it works.

 

[Archangel M]

Where do you think the cop parks when hes responding to a call?

If hes eating lunch and a bank robbery call goes out you would perhaps prefer that he takes longer running out to the car parked at the end of the lot?

Theres a difference between doing this in a marked car on duty and doing it in his personal car off duty.

Some of you folks just have "issues"....

 

[shesulsa]

It is unfortunate that a citizen feels the need to start criminal proceedings against a police officer as a civilian, rather then the officer following the same rules as everyone else. It may seem like a small thing, violation of a No Parking sign. But as an officer is expected to set an example for members of society, it would behoove him to follow the same rules as anyone else.


But that is not what we see, is it. We get a smart aleky comment by the thread starter. Which leads me to thing that this is not about the officer really doing something wrong, but more of a, Ha, Ha, you got in trouble comment. Instead of looking upon the situation as something to be saddened by, it gets laughed at. Absolutely amazing. And by those posting the smart-a@@ comments, from what I have seen in some of their postings in other threads, it is not surprising that they have done so.

I'm not assuming you're addressing me, but for clarity's sake ... it IS sad to me that some police officers feel it's perfectly justifiable to abuse their privileges AND sad that a citizen is so disenamored with the purpose of policework as to file proceedings.

I think it's good that we can do this as citizens, but I wonder if this particular instance was worth the trouble. I can deal with my disappointments for traffic violation overrides but ... there are other acts a few policemen have committed that are far more worth the effort and indignation. JMVHO.

You know, no one has a problem with someone from Nordstroms getting a 40% discount on items sold in their store, nor someonw from McDonalds getting discounted/free food. Yes, one of the fringe benefits of being a police officer and driving a patrol car is that you get to park in a No Parking Zone, if one could really call that a perk. Gee, look at me, Im parking in a No Parking Zone in a police car, how cool am I.

Mmmmm .... Okay. I can look at a B&W parked in a no-parking zone, look at the parking area and ascertain if it was necessary to park there according to spot availability, the orientation of the parking area and street access, occupancy, etcetera. I know if an LEO needs to ditch his lunch for an emergency call that time is of the essence and ... I'm fine with that.

If there is easy, multiple access one can park the patrol car nose-out in a regular spot and be fine.

I also have to wonder why an LEO can't simply say, "I know it seems abusive but if I have to leave in a hurry, that's the best place for me to be." or "I'd rather get there faster and maybe catch the bad guy than maneuver around obstacles and get there too late." The response was just ... well, it doesn't help the general perception of the police force in general.

No matter how justified you may be in parking there, PR is every officer's responsibility as is risk management and threat assessment.

I don't whine because you get to park where I can't. I whine because some LEOs get tired of the bad rap they have because of cops who talk to people like that one did.

It's all SAD.

 

[Archangel M]

Sounds like he was "standing" rather than "parking" anyways.