I hate it when.....

[Touch Of Death]

People jab a punch at my face or chest and then say 'why didnt you block that'

My father did it to me last night. Was gonna get my supper and he suddenly out of the blue jabbed at me. I jumped and assumed a fighting stance, zenkutsu dachi, even though its obvious I wont actually fight my dad. lol. but still he said I was too slow and he could have hit me and there wasnt anything i could do about it. I said how can one stop a surprise attack right out of blue like that. especially when its your family member and u know they arent gonna hit you He said he was just teasing but I found it annoying.

Anyone ever say or do stuff to you like that because you're in martial arts?

Yes; and, I would suggest you assume it might happen around people you know that know you are in the martial arts. Make it a game. They did.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't really see it as a huge problem but I'm pretty easy going. My friends and I punch each other all the time for various reasons. Like we have a rule that if one of us is getting out of hand in public (anything that could actually lead to a barfight) then we are perfectly within our rights to hit him. My rational is, if I hit you it's to keep you out of trouble and the rest of us from having to jump into a barfight to defend your drunk butt.

But yeah, you can usually read intent with who actually wants to hit you and who's just playing around. Either way, block, grip, control and put them in a compromising position without hurting them and then ask if this is what they expected.

Zactly!

 

[Touch Of Death]

I had a few guys playing Kato at work. I find if you sweep that lead leg, they don't want to play Karate anymore. One guy threw a slow *** front kick at me and I swang at his foot with my knee, like a baseball bat. He was wearing them "pants on the ground" pants and he actualy flew through the air and landed on his head. He just layed there saying, "It was my pants" over and over. At present, I am attacked very little these days.%-}
Sean

 

[Xinglu]

oh really? a white belt and a yellow belt are not the same. I passed a real legitimate grading to pass to yellow belt. must be different with those places u speak of.

No need to feel slighted. I'm sorry for the mis understanding, allow me to atempt to clarify.

What was meant was as a white you were 9th kyu, now you are a yellow at 8th kyu. Which is a one kyu advancement in your art. My orginial statement assumed you used a 10 kyu ranking not a 9. So it is the same level of advancement.

Some schools the 9th kyu is yellow.

Consider that up until very recent varied belt colors did not exist. Personally I find the color to be irrelevant. A 4th kyu should have more knowledge and skill (and will hold more seniority) then a 7th kyu does, even if that 4th kyu wears a white belt and the 7th a purple.

At the schools I've trained at they have three colors of belts. White, Brown, Black. Though some have more colors for children so they don't lose interest. There you where white up until 3rd kyu. Each kyu has legitimate grading and rigorous tests. No grade is/was handed out.

 

[FearlessFreep]

But yeah, you can usually read intent with who actually wants to hit you and who's just playing around.

and in the spirit of 'situational awareness' and 'body language' which come well before the first hit, you really shouldn't have to worry about those sorts of things in your own home from your own family.

(and no offense intended but, to the OP, a yellow belt in any rank is still pretty green so naturally you're not going to be as 'aware' as someone who's been doing it awhile and it's pretty childish of your father to pull that on you, but i've seen idiots who think that three months training means you have a killer instinct and hands of death so...)

 

[Draven]

Seriously?!

Before people start bagging on the power of the jab (or lack there of) let me remind you of the power of speed. A properly executed jab from a skilled boxer should hit as hard as the average persons straight punch. Why? Speed and distancing.

Actually a jab is a straight punch, its just a difference in terms...

Also I'm aware of the distance issue but since landing a proper jab, requires either near perfect timing or dumb luck. A Jab withot timing is wasted energy at worse & a probe at best. I've seen plenty of people with broken noses and cheek bones, I even been the cause of a few, from jabs. Most the damage was done when the person stepped into the jab & that was always timing issue not technique; as you say Speed (I say timing) & distancing.

Even if you look at boxing events, boxers trades several jabs throughout the match & few cause a knockout or even a knock down, they one's that do are because the target steps in when the punch is snapped. Which just goes back to the point that its application not just technique.

 

[Xinglu]

Even if you look at boxing events, boxers trades several jabs throughout the match & few cause a knockout or even a knock down, they one's that do are because the target steps in when the punch is snapped. Which just goes back to the point that its application not just technique.

Lets not forget the gloves. Which do take a lot of the impact out of the jab. But even then, there faces are swollen.

...as you say Speed (I say timing) & distancing.

Timing implies when you throw the strike, where as speed implies the velocity at which the strike it thrown. Two very different things.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Lets not forget the gloves. Which do take a lot of the impact out of the jab. But even then, there faces are swollen.

Furthermore, timing implies when you throw the strike, where as speed implies the velocity at which the strike it thrown. Two very different things.

Speed is part of timing. Timing refers to your mental, physical, emotional, perceptual, and spiritual fitness, and is not just a when.
Sean

 

[Xinglu]

Speed is part of timing. Timing refers to your mental, physical, emotional, perceptual, and spiritual fitness, and is not just a when.
Sean

When referring to power generated, as I was, I was clearly referring to velocity. Which has nothing to do with timing in that context. If you want to set up a strawman argument and talk about something I wasn't feel free to. I would agree that the "speed of a fighter" has a lot to do with timing, however the velocity of a punch has nothing to do with timing. And I was and still am talking about velocity.

 

[Touch Of Death]

When referring to power generated, as I was, I was clearly referring to velocity. Which has nothing to do with timing in that context. If you want to set up a strawman argument and talk about something I wasn't feel free to. I would agree that the "speed of a fighter" has a lot to do with timing, however the velocity of a punch has nothing to do with timing. And I was and still am talking about velocity.

And Forms don't help with timing either. I get it. Why is the way you do something not a part of timing?

Sean

 

[Xinglu]

Why is the way you do something not a part of timing?

the speed of a bullet doesn't depend on when you pull the trigger, the speed of an arrow does not depend on when you release the string. Likewise the velocity of a punch does not depend on when you strike. It's effectiveness might. It's accuracy might, but not it's velocity.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of timing, it is just irrelevant in the current context.

I'm also a fan of forms, they have a great many uses, but again: irrelevant in this context.

 

[Fiendlover]

People jab a punch at my face or chest and then say 'why didnt you block that'

My father did it to me last night. Was gonna get my supper and he suddenly out of the blue jabbed at me. I jumped and assumed a fighting stance, zenkutsu dachi, even though its obvious I wont actually fight my dad. lol. but still he said I was too slow and he could have hit me and there wasnt anything i could do about it. I said how can one stop a surprise attack right out of blue like that. especially when its your family member and u know they arent gonna hit you He said he was just teasing but I found it annoying.

Anyone ever say or do stuff to you like that because you're in martial arts?

It happens to me constantly from my older brother who just started in MMA and he wants to test me because I've done martial arts for years and he thinks he can beat me because he's physically stronger then I am. So his usual tricks are trying to take me down in the kitchen and shooting jab at my outstretched hands. Yes, it is annoying.

 

[mook jong man]

People jab a punch at my face or chest and then say 'why didnt you block that'

My father did it to me last night. Was gonna get my supper and he suddenly out of the blue jabbed at me. I jumped and assumed a fighting stance, zenkutsu dachi, even though its obvious I wont actually fight my dad. lol. but still he said I was too slow and he could have hit me and there wasnt anything i could do about it. I said how can one stop a surprise attack right out of blue like that. especially when its your family member and u know they arent gonna hit you He said he was just teasing but I found it annoying.

Anyone ever say or do stuff to you like that because you're in martial arts?

Don't worry about it , it doesn't matter if you've been training 20 or 40 years .

There is a range that you can be hit no matter who you are and that range is close range , especially if your attention is on something else at the time.

Your brain will quite simply not be able to react to the stimulus in time to signal the muscles to mount a defence , at least not without a lot of specific type training.

This is why concepts such as the Fence and the like have come about so that the defender can keep the attacker at such a distance as to have time to react to an attack or indeed hit with their own preemptive strike.

To be able to react effectively to a direct strike such as a fast jab , you are going to need the person to have to at least have to take a step in towards you for you to be able to pick up the body cue that he is about to attack.

But don't worry , after a while the novelty will wear off and people won't really test you out any more once your training starts stretching into the years.
But it does help if you scare them a little bit so they are not likely to want to try it again .

When I worked in a factory that manufactured kitchen bench tops I was always getting blokes walking past throwing punches at me , one guy had a go and I deflected and trapped his arms so quick he didn't know what hit him.

I didn't hurt him but the contact on his arms and the speed of the strikes whizzing around his face shocked him that much that he never came near me again.

You will get some people that will be trying to make you look like a dick , this stems from their own insecurities and because they hate to see any one that has the discipline to be dedicated to something.

But there will also be a small minority of people people that are genuinely interested in what you do , these people might even want you to teach them or find out where you train so that they can join up and learn too.

 

[FearlessFreep]

a jab is a probing strike with no real power just speed. The jab wouldn't have hurt much if at all because it lacked the mass of the body behind the strike.

This is incorrect, and a dangerous assumption to make

Always assume that the person you are dealing with knows what they are doing and be proven wrong to your benefit, than the other way around.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Getting back to the original topic: I really hate that crap, and it's one of the reasons that I only talk about MA with people I trust. And even then, when non MA people ask what I do I say jujutsu and I don't mention ninpo or ninjutsu at all.

There have been 2 times when someone tried to test my reactions. Both times they grabbed me from behind. In one case I recognized the guy in time to pull my swing and only tapped him against the head softly as a warning not to do that again. The other time, the guy (different guy) jumped me from behind and then immediately jumped away so my elbow missed him.

Both times it could have ended badly for the other guy.
People testing you unexpectedly (Like Omar mentioned, among friends it depends what is considered normal) is showing a lack of respect. Yes, when I am in public I usually consider distance and angles at all times, and I will generally be on the lookout for 'wrong' body movements.

The thing is... when I am with my parents, my guard is down. I trust my family. I am not continuously on guard around my parents because there is no reason to think that they have anything but good intentions. Doing what you described would be a violation of that trust. Same with my best friend. We used to spar for hours when we were younger, roughing each other up considerably. But we never attacked out of the blue. Doing that against someone with training can go very wrong very rapidly.

 

[Stac3y]

My kids are in karate and are both advanced belts, as I am. They will throw a technique at me now and then in play, but they have sufficient training and control to make sure it's not something that would injure me. Likewise, I respond with techniques that won't hurt them; and tell them to stop if I don't want to participate. I STRONGLY discourage them from playing that way with their dad, as he doesn't have the training to keep from accidentally hurting them. And they definitely know better than to do that with any of their friends or each other. They would be in a world of trouble.

 

[FearlessFreep]

My kids are in karate and are both advanced belts, as I am. They will throw a technique at me now and then in play, but they have sufficient training and control to make sure it's not something that would injure me. Likewise, I respond with techniques that won't hurt them; and tell them to stop if I don't want to participate. I STRONGLY discourage them from playing that way with their dad, as he doesn't have the training to keep from accidentally hurting them. And they definitely know better than to do that with any of their friends or each other. They would be in a world of trouble.

My son (18), daughter (15) and I do a lot of the same thing.

The problem we run into is that since we all train together, we all know the same moves and reactions and counter-moves, so it's very, very hard sometimes to make something work

 

[Draven]

the speed of a bullet doesn't depend on when you pull the trigger, the speed of an arrow does not depend on when you release the string. Likewise the velocity of a punch does not depend on when you strike. It's effectiveness might. It's accuracy might, but not it's velocity.

Ever shoot a moving target, the speed of the bullet doesn't matter its the timing for when you pull the trigger that lets the target move into the path of the bullet. A jab executed without timing ain't going to anything specificly because its like shooting a moving target target and trying to either spray & pray (hoping to get lucky) or trying to catch the target.

Now a jab can be effective I not arguing that but you have different types of jabs; a jab & hard jab. A hard jab, also called a hard lead, involves stepping forward behind the strike; exactly as my first mentioned. Usually a jab is used to either prob for a weakness or to offset the opponent's timing. If an opponent steps forward to strike & catch him with a jab (that requires timing) & if he steps forward and I meet him by steping forward with a jab (making it a hard jab/hard lead) my jab is slightly slower but far more powerful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of timing, it is just irrelevant in the current context.

I'm also a fan of forms, they have a great many uses, but again: irrelevant in this context.

Well I have to disagree with you, speed is not the answer here proper technique is and in the context of proper technique, speed is one thing, but speed alone is not. Power comes from more then simple speed, it also involves timing, distance & stability all of which effect something like marksmanship as well; if you don't a stable firing platform the round is less likely to travel a straight line, if you don't understand how distance effects timing (especially against a moving target) & time your shots accordingly the speed of bullet is irrelevant.

 

[Draven]

This is incorrect, and a dangerous assumption to make

Always assume that the person you are dealing with knows what they are doing and be proven wrong to your benefit, than the other way around.

I disagree there are different types of jabs & a jab, or simple jab as its sometimes called, is a weak probing strike with no real power. That doesn't mean it can't hurt someone or sting when it makes contact.

Now as far as a jab goes; there are atleast four different types of jabs...

A Jab or Simple Jab: Basicly a snap of the forward hand punching straight ahead with the lead knee bending behind the punch. Now very powerful

A Closing Jab or Space Maker: Is a simple Jab with the lead foot stepping forward & the lead knee bending into the forward momentum the strike. Then as the rear foot is brought forward as the you return to the guard on recover of the punch. Slightly weaker then the Jab because the body isn't fully stable but its a perfect set up for getting in close or causing an opponent to back up.

Power Jab or Hard Lead; Is basicly a simple jab but lauched off the rear foot so that the wieght of the body is being pushed into the strike & not pulled in from the lead foot.

Counter-Jab; which is often set in combination with the hard lead & uses a "back fist" type motion to deflect an opponent's jab & at the same set time get your lead hand closer to the opponent for a jab to be executed, usually a hard lead jab since this places your hand closer to the target.

Trust me, my uncles were big on boxing & I've boxed at different times in my life for fun...

 

[Blade96]

No need to feel slighted. I'm sorry for the mis understanding, allow me to atempt to clarify.

What was meant was as a white you were 9th kyu, now you are a yellow at 8th kyu. Which is a one kyu advancement in your art. My orginial statement assumed you used a 10 kyu ranking not a 9. So it is the same level of advancement.

Some schools the 9th kyu is yellow.

Consider that up until very recent varied belt colors did not exist. Personally I find the color to be irrelevant. A 4th kyu should have more knowledge and skill (and will hold more seniority) then a 7th kyu does, even if that 4th kyu wears a white belt and the 7th a purple.

At the schools I've trained at they have three colors of belts. White, Brown, Black. Though some have more colors for children so they don't lose interest. There you where white up until 3rd kyu. Each kyu has legitimate grading and rigorous tests. No grade is/was handed out.

yeah ours starts 9th kyu (white) and goes to 4th kyu (brown belt) then after that assuming you pass grading then you are shodan.

and in the spirit of 'situational awareness' and 'body language' which come well before the first hit, you really shouldn't have to worry about those sorts of things in your own home from your own family.

(and no offense intended but, to the OP, a yellow belt in any rank is still pretty green so naturally you're not going to be as 'aware' as someone who's been doing it awhile and it's pretty childish of your father to pull that on you, but i've seen idiots who think that three months training means you have a killer instinct and hands of death so...)

Heh, I'd consider even a 4th kyu, maybe even a shodan green considering karate is a lifelong term of study if you studied for ten years considering the lifespan one should be in it then you are green.....