Obliquity
Green Belt
ding!
For it's shortcomings, I still find the show informative and think that it can only help promote the MAs in general.
Human Weapon - Silat!
- Thread starter Brian R. VanCise
- Start date
ding!
For it's shortcomings, I still find the show informative and think that it can only help promote the MAs in general.
You may have a point there.
Those not already exposed to the arts may well start because of this program and that would be a plus
Those not already exposed to the arts may well start because of this program and that would be a plus
Perpetual White Belt
Blue Belt
Yep, I got extra calls at my school starting the week after the Eskrima episode aired. Overall I like the show myself. It's never gonna' be what a martial arts show "should" be because the only people that would watch it are the martial artists. Unfortunatly we're not a big enough demographic to keep it on air, so I'll sit through the inaine hosting. Incedently, does anyone else find it painful/humorous to watch Bill do any weapons techniques or anything involving form?
So I'm glad I happened to miss it then?
As to what sort of hairbrained comentary we would have recieved courtesy of the Brothers Dim-----If I were doing the episode---nothing 3 straight hours of Harimau wouldn't fix.:EG::EG::EG:
As to what sort of hairbrained comentary we would have recieved courtesy of the Brothers Dim-----If I were doing the episode---nothing 3 straight hours of Harimau wouldn't fix.:EG::EG::EG:
I've watched a number of these episodes and , overall, I think we need to cut them ( the History Channel/ Human Weapon) some slack. When the dust settles and the air clears , I am not dissapointed with the program on silat.....in fact, I liked it . But to like it, one needs to keep things in proper perspective.
Sure ,I get tired of the questionable statements..."This is the only systems that uses....( fill in the blank) " and other superlatives , as well as the notion that these two guys can come in ( probably with some preconcieved notions and established "worldviews " on combat) and in a week get a real handle on the essence of an art and get some sort of "mastery" ....followed by a challenge to someone who has years in the art. I'm sure they can't just be "blown off the mat"....this would not look good for the hosts. They ( the hosts) may say some goofy things but I don't think it is meant with disrespect to the martial arts community and I think I have not seen them act disdainful to any system. From an Indo -Malay perspective they could seem arrogant .I think they could appeal to to Western viewers in that they ( especially Bill Duff ) seem to walk in with a bit of typical Western skepticism and confidence in his own strength and size.....and then seems to often have his "eyes opened" a bit by his training experiences. I think this makes an acceptable impression on the casual viewer.
I train silat and , knowing how many Guru -guru are, I'd doubt they would give their best and most profound teachings to outsiders with some money for a TV show to be aired in front of thousands of people they know nothing about. I expected the techniques to be simple with easily learned movements....no special "state secrets " being revealed. The fight against 6 pesilat was so staged that it was clearly "repetitive demonstration only", rather than a real , unrehearsed silat vs mass attack scenario. So, yes , in that regard , it was disappointing. They made favorable and complimentary remarks regarding silat , which someone like me ( a silat player)would obviously like. They did touch on some of the characteristic features of silat , but they did not stress/ emphasize them, making them easily missed by anyone not hanging on their every word. The problem here is , we ,as martial artists ,are wanting a martial arts program FOR martial artists. In this, case we want a silat program for silat people. We want to see the hosts and viewers being taken through all the deep , esoteric teachings of these arts, we want to see them being taught special techniques that are more closely held and we want a very thorough ,analytical dissection of what makes this art different and valuable compared to others. This program is just not able to do that within its basic premise and the time constraints. A Pendekar of a silat system is not going to show all that to an outsider anyway....and we all know this!
The program is designed to fascinate and "hook" the casual History Channel viewer who may know NOTHING of ANY martial art let alone our/ your favorite "pet" martial art. Obviously, the goal is to get these guys ready for a "sparring session" that can be shown to an audience. The Channel probably things a "ring style" or "MMA style" sparring session is what the general public wants to see. This is ,in itself , limiting. Some things just don't translate to the "ring sparring" session , which is the climactic feature of the program . Obviously ,weapon work may be outside the scope of the program or be deemed unsuitable ..or less suitable for public consumption. The Escrima style stick fighting may have been okay, but a sparring session with knives/ keris/ karambit might be considered "too violent" for the general audience. Some training is just not astounding and exciting to the TV viewer as well. There is not enough time to get into the subtle developmental changes and discoveries found with prolonged training in an art like Silat either. Being intimately involved with martial arts , we can always come up with ways to "do it better " I think.
The presentation/ program is confined to one hour. I am sure they have to limit what they show and I think a lot gets edited out for one reason or another. This really limits what can be shown....anything that is "boring" or too far off track is most likely discarded.
I think the computer animation and explaination of the techniques are some sort of "nod" to those who want to "learn something " by watching the program. It seems everything ever shown is absolutely elementary , if you have any time in the arts. However, we have to remember the program essentially targets the non-martial artists: all those folks from the outside looking in to the "world of martial arts"....those who have heard of only one or two arts and, perhaps have no knowledge of anything being out there other than karate or judo.....those who know nothing of the arts and find this program an interesting and entertaining chance to learn something.....those who do not train but might use this as a way to decide what they might , someday , want to train in.
If ,as the old adage goes, "there is no such thing as bad press" , this program , for all it's shortcomings ( from a trained martial artist's perspective) is still "our" best ally in stirring up interest in martial arts . It does not show the arts to be full of sociopaths ... it touches on history... it shows intelligent,patient ,giving instructors and friendly, helpful students .... it shows gentlemanly and polite conduct even in context of the "challenges"...it shows challenging , daunting training regimens that can still be survived albeit with pained smiles......all positive reflections on "our world". Every week , we have a program that comes on discussing "martial arts" and in a circuitous way, promoting the arts. It is , essentially , a FREE "martial arts awareness" program and advertisement for the world of martial arts....broadcast nationally and internationally.
I don't think we need to protest too bitterly.
With Respect,
Doc D
Sure ,I get tired of the questionable statements..."This is the only systems that uses....( fill in the blank) " and other superlatives , as well as the notion that these two guys can come in ( probably with some preconcieved notions and established "worldviews " on combat) and in a week get a real handle on the essence of an art and get some sort of "mastery" ....followed by a challenge to someone who has years in the art. I'm sure they can't just be "blown off the mat"....this would not look good for the hosts. They ( the hosts) may say some goofy things but I don't think it is meant with disrespect to the martial arts community and I think I have not seen them act disdainful to any system. From an Indo -Malay perspective they could seem arrogant .I think they could appeal to to Western viewers in that they ( especially Bill Duff ) seem to walk in with a bit of typical Western skepticism and confidence in his own strength and size.....and then seems to often have his "eyes opened" a bit by his training experiences. I think this makes an acceptable impression on the casual viewer.
I train silat and , knowing how many Guru -guru are, I'd doubt they would give their best and most profound teachings to outsiders with some money for a TV show to be aired in front of thousands of people they know nothing about. I expected the techniques to be simple with easily learned movements....no special "state secrets " being revealed. The fight against 6 pesilat was so staged that it was clearly "repetitive demonstration only", rather than a real , unrehearsed silat vs mass attack scenario. So, yes , in that regard , it was disappointing. They made favorable and complimentary remarks regarding silat , which someone like me ( a silat player)would obviously like. They did touch on some of the characteristic features of silat , but they did not stress/ emphasize them, making them easily missed by anyone not hanging on their every word. The problem here is , we ,as martial artists ,are wanting a martial arts program FOR martial artists. In this, case we want a silat program for silat people. We want to see the hosts and viewers being taken through all the deep , esoteric teachings of these arts, we want to see them being taught special techniques that are more closely held and we want a very thorough ,analytical dissection of what makes this art different and valuable compared to others. This program is just not able to do that within its basic premise and the time constraints. A Pendekar of a silat system is not going to show all that to an outsider anyway....and we all know this!
The program is designed to fascinate and "hook" the casual History Channel viewer who may know NOTHING of ANY martial art let alone our/ your favorite "pet" martial art. Obviously, the goal is to get these guys ready for a "sparring session" that can be shown to an audience. The Channel probably things a "ring style" or "MMA style" sparring session is what the general public wants to see. This is ,in itself , limiting. Some things just don't translate to the "ring sparring" session , which is the climactic feature of the program . Obviously ,weapon work may be outside the scope of the program or be deemed unsuitable ..or less suitable for public consumption. The Escrima style stick fighting may have been okay, but a sparring session with knives/ keris/ karambit might be considered "too violent" for the general audience. Some training is just not astounding and exciting to the TV viewer as well. There is not enough time to get into the subtle developmental changes and discoveries found with prolonged training in an art like Silat either. Being intimately involved with martial arts , we can always come up with ways to "do it better " I think.
The presentation/ program is confined to one hour. I am sure they have to limit what they show and I think a lot gets edited out for one reason or another. This really limits what can be shown....anything that is "boring" or too far off track is most likely discarded.
I think the computer animation and explaination of the techniques are some sort of "nod" to those who want to "learn something " by watching the program. It seems everything ever shown is absolutely elementary , if you have any time in the arts. However, we have to remember the program essentially targets the non-martial artists: all those folks from the outside looking in to the "world of martial arts"....those who have heard of only one or two arts and, perhaps have no knowledge of anything being out there other than karate or judo.....those who know nothing of the arts and find this program an interesting and entertaining chance to learn something.....those who do not train but might use this as a way to decide what they might , someday , want to train in.
If ,as the old adage goes, "there is no such thing as bad press" , this program , for all it's shortcomings ( from a trained martial artist's perspective) is still "our" best ally in stirring up interest in martial arts . It does not show the arts to be full of sociopaths ... it touches on history... it shows intelligent,patient ,giving instructors and friendly, helpful students .... it shows gentlemanly and polite conduct even in context of the "challenges"...it shows challenging , daunting training regimens that can still be survived albeit with pained smiles......all positive reflections on "our world". Every week , we have a program that comes on discussing "martial arts" and in a circuitous way, promoting the arts. It is , essentially , a FREE "martial arts awareness" program and advertisement for the world of martial arts....broadcast nationally and internationally.
I don't think we need to protest too bitterly.
With Respect,
Doc D
And....one last thought....when was the last time anyone saw anything with "Silat" or "Pencak Silat" displayed in open ,public "view" (aside from a martial arts magazine) here in the USA ???
This was probably our best way to get art and name of Silat out to the general populace.
So, I think it helped us more than hurt us.....
Doc D
This was probably our best way to get art and name of Silat out to the general populace.
So, I think it helped us more than hurt us.....
Doc D
Hardly ever and that's just exactly the way I LIKED it, to be honest.
Ha, ha ....well, honestly I agree with your point. I'd hate to see the art so common that its everywhere for everybody like some arts. However, letting people know about the art doesn't make it available to everyone. Letting folks know about the art doesn't remove the hurdles to finding it or getting accepted. If the art is SO secret no one knows about it , you can lose a potential "worthy student "(from a silat perspective ) to other arts simply because he/she will never seek you out......and so a good person is denied the art . I'm sure a few arts , somewhere , have probably completely died out because no one would ever mention the art....
Still my understanding is that Silat Gayong has thousands of students in Malaysia ....and it appears the Silat schools aren't always hidden and secret over there....it appears it has not hurt their art to be available to so many ....as far as I know.
I don't think its bad for people to know enough of the art that they at least respect it and hold it in some positive regard.( Again, here in the USA, there are still plenty of hurdles to getting started in it) . Otherwise, you can't be miffed if someone calls it "PanKak S-Eye Laht " or some other odd pronounciation and then says" Never heard of it...must be no good". Now, if we prefer that folks think that... and the "rep" of silat is that the art doesn't look so special, ....thus keeping others unaware of it's combat effectiveness , what's the arguement about presentation on the show? Having people not seek it out even when its in front of them is as good as it being "secret". ( that is if you do believe the art was butchered in the show and that the art should be kept secret).
If we wanted silat to be super secret , in truth, none of us would have t -shirts, logos , websites....or even be talking about it on the public forum of the internet. Just some random thoughts here...
On the other hand ,I absolutely do empathize with your sentiments.
I do agree I wouldn't want a silat school in every town .... and I also have to admit I rather like dabbling in something that seems rather rare and difficult to find
With Respect
Doc
Still my understanding is that Silat Gayong has thousands of students in Malaysia ....and it appears the Silat schools aren't always hidden and secret over there....it appears it has not hurt their art to be available to so many ....as far as I know.
I don't think its bad for people to know enough of the art that they at least respect it and hold it in some positive regard.( Again, here in the USA, there are still plenty of hurdles to getting started in it) . Otherwise, you can't be miffed if someone calls it "PanKak S-Eye Laht " or some other odd pronounciation and then says" Never heard of it...must be no good". Now, if we prefer that folks think that... and the "rep" of silat is that the art doesn't look so special, ....thus keeping others unaware of it's combat effectiveness , what's the arguement about presentation on the show? Having people not seek it out even when its in front of them is as good as it being "secret". ( that is if you do believe the art was butchered in the show and that the art should be kept secret).
If we wanted silat to be super secret , in truth, none of us would have t -shirts, logos , websites....or even be talking about it on the public forum of the internet. Just some random thoughts here...
On the other hand ,I absolutely do empathize with your sentiments.
I do agree I wouldn't want a silat school in every town .... and I also have to admit I rather like dabbling in something that seems rather rare and difficult to find
With Respect
Doc
Sure, but this is America, nothing is sacred.
ChingChuan
Blue Belt
They finally put a small piece from the show on line, so I watched it... I don't completely agree with the things they say, but I was particularly stricken by their pronunciation of 'silat' - it sounded a bit like 'seelah' or something... I don't know whether that's the right way - my teacher always pronounces it with a distinct T, like 'seelaT'...
(I hope that the complete episode will soon be available
)
(I hope that the complete episode will soon be available
)
silat
Yellow Belt
OK,
I have to say overall it was OK, not great but not horrible either and of course it is not for us pesilats but for the general public.
What I didn't like was the fact that they did not mention Indonesia or the other countries in the Malay Peninsula that has Silat.
I think they should now have an episode on Pencak/Pentjak Silat from Indonesia!
Sincerely.
Teacher: Eddie Ivester
I have to say overall it was OK, not great but not horrible either and of course it is not for us pesilats but for the general public.
What I didn't like was the fact that they did not mention Indonesia or the other countries in the Malay Peninsula that has Silat.
I think they should now have an episode on Pencak/Pentjak Silat from Indonesia!
Sincerely.
Teacher: Eddie Ivester
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