Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
It never stopped things in the past. Just look at the history of the US, during colonial times. How many slave owners had offspring with their slaves? Lots and lots.
Human Race will Split into Two Species...
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
It never stopped things in the past. Just look at the history of the US, during colonial times. How many slave owners had offspring with their slaves? Lots and lots.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Naziesque undertones of a "master race" and the idea that some people are "sub-human" by genetics if you ask me. I dont like it.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
While this idea is obviously wrong for the reasons that the others have put forth, it doesn't even make sense in its own terms. Because the gene pool for the underclass would be much broader (more people) they would probably be the attractive and intelligent ones, while widespread physical abnormalities would be more likely to persist in the more restricted gene pool of the elites. Just look at the history of the European royal families!
If the author is going to claim that the underclass becomes dumb and goblinoid because of sex selection, that is also pretty screwy, because most people seem to enjoy hooking up with the most attractive people possible. If he is going to claim that the underclass will become dumb and ugly because they are poor and hungry, I would refer him to places like Africa where the people look pretty normal generally speaking.
Ray
Master Black Belt
I was hoping the future would be more like "A Day at the Races."
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
I don't see a genetic split happening, but the rift between two classes is already very clear.
Long, long ago we homo sapiens made a deal with the devil and exchanged technology for evolution. We no longer need to evolve...we can develop gadgets that increase our survivability without all that tedious mucking about with genetic drift, survival of the fittest and natural selection.
Access to those technologies is not universal, however. Look at what the 'developed' world has, compared to 2/5 of the world population that can't manage clean drinking water.
While some good-hearted folk are working to fix that, the general trend seems to be towards a wider rift between the haves and the haven'ts.
We don't need genetic change to see a difference between some 13 year old kid in Somalia and a 13 year old kid in Beverlee Hills. The only thing that's missing is more widespread acceptance of the myth that both are there because it's natural, or that they deserved it.
Long, long ago we homo sapiens made a deal with the devil and exchanged technology for evolution. We no longer need to evolve...we can develop gadgets that increase our survivability without all that tedious mucking about with genetic drift, survival of the fittest and natural selection.
Access to those technologies is not universal, however. Look at what the 'developed' world has, compared to 2/5 of the world population that can't manage clean drinking water.
While some good-hearted folk are working to fix that, the general trend seems to be towards a wider rift between the haves and the haven'ts.
We don't need genetic change to see a difference between some 13 year old kid in Somalia and a 13 year old kid in Beverlee Hills. The only thing that's missing is more widespread acceptance of the myth that both are there because it's natural, or that they deserved it.
tellner
Senior Master
Truly G-d is Great! Blotan Hunka and I have found another political point where we're in complete agreement!
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
DAMN and all this time I was just thinking right handed versus left handed :uhyeah:
As far as a serious response to this goes Blotan Hunka pretty much got it in my opinion
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Is an eclipse at hand? Perhaps an earthquake or stars falling from the sky?? LOL!
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
We have many examples of social differentiation throughout the history of humanity. It seems we really do like to divide ourselves up into little groups of haves and have nots. But none of the examples we have created the right sort of divide as to create species variation. We have some beauties right now that have separated the so-called first world from the developing world, but it doesn't actually stop people from moving between one group and the other, so cross fertilisation continues.
It is always interesting to note that this kind of speculation comes from people whose descendants would be in the elite. Maybe its just wishful thinking for the well-being of their offspring.
Different guy, Rich. The one you're thinking of (I think) is James Watson, codiscoverer of the double helical structure of DNA (and cowinner of the Nobel Prize for that discovery). This guy is apparently some political scientist at—where was it? The London School of Economics? I was relieved to learn the guy's no biologist—you'd hope someone who actually knew something about demographics and genetics would be a little more cautious in making loopy predictions like that...
Here's an interesting exercise: take the social and economic organization of England in the year 1000, and the social and economic organization of England in the year 2007, and chart the differences in technology, economic activity, the organization of work, patterns of settlement and residence.... the lot. Now do a little thought experiment: imagine going back to the city of, oh, say York in the year 1000 and asking every single person in the city what life would be like a thousand years later. And then try and imagine even one of them being even vaguely, minutely right. Now why should we think that this guy has any better chance of being right about events 1,000, let alone 10,000 years in the future? Given how unexpected things are—hell, could our parents in the 1950s even visualize the impact of personal computers on the organization of the economy a measely half century and some change later??—why are we not simply reading what this guy has to say, rolling our eyesrolleyes
Thanks Exile for the information.
Hmmm 1000 years ago versus today. How about 1897 to 2007? So let us look at 2117 and think what might be able to be around?
No... Not even BIGGER noses & ears! Blood so watery that it just oozes out of the capillaries and pores?
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
No... Not even BIGGER noses & ears! Blood so watery that it just oozes out of the capillaries and pores?
Now see what you gone and done!
I'm going to have nightmares for days now, haunted by big nosed, big eared, no chinned monsters bleeding all over the place and speaking in weird upper class accents. :xtrmshock
OP
OP
Yeah, but what about technology? What's to stop a global elite class from genetically manipulating themselves and using other futuristic life extension technologies from making it impossible for them to "dilute" their gene pool by screwing the proles? I bet that it wouldn't take that many generations and you'd truly have a partition.
Technically, this seems feasible to me. Realistically? Probably not, but who knows? Someone mentioned James Watson above. He has always been a big time supporter of eugenics. If that theory ever came back into vogue with the monied elites, all bets are off...
Technically, this seems feasible to me. Realistically? Probably not, but who knows? Someone mentioned James Watson above. He has always been a big time supporter of eugenics. If that theory ever came back into vogue with the monied elites, all bets are off...
It was war time to get up too Nuclear power. That made bis steps.
The micro chip made big changes.
The next change will come from another area where a break through will happen. It will make things seem like wow how did we get by without it, and yet that is what is great about the break throughs.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
I can actually see medical technology having some effect like this but I can also see a problem. Eugenics programs of the past generally tended to look at an entire 'race' of people, usually white Europeans. The problem I can see with an economic elite doing this and excluding people of lesser socio-economic backgrounds is that they are going to limit their genetic diversity.
I think that Empty Hands made a good point with the example of European royalty. They are all starting to look a bit samey. Of course, it can be argued that gene manipulation could overcome the lack of diversity.
Life extension is an interesting thing. Currently we consider a generation to be about 30-40 years. It would be interesting to see the effects on a population in which one group was progressing through twice as many generations as another in the same time frame
Another point, let us say there is a seperation, and still free choice to choose from your own sub-group. I mean I am 6'3" - 190.5 cm and I have found that while women of a certain height are cute and attractive I prefer not to date them as they are shorter than me. In the same I know some women who do not like dating such a big guy. So, while people will choose their partners based upon selection and discrimination (* look up the ord to see how I am applying it here *) and one will still see that there will be a based point of how people will go tall and short or heavy frame and small frame and blonde and brunette or brown and blue eyes.
I think if such a group does separate themselves they will either die out do to lack of numbers or will be on another planet after we terraform, and even then it would be hard to see such a major change.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
That's a good point you make,Rich, about selection and discrimination. That is why during the eugenics movements in Germany and the United States (just to name two) that individuals didn't really get to choose their own partners. The state or group decided who would breed with whom. Otherwise, in a small population you will get some people simply being left out as undesirable which ultimately will reduce the group size and eventually lead to the extinction of the group.
