Wow! I wanted Gracie to win, but thought Hughes would win. I did not expect Hughes to dominate him like that though! Gracie looked completely overmatched on the ground and his standup looked ridiculous. Did anyone think that he was going to take out Hughes with a kick or punch....please. I realize Gracie is much older and Hughes is a freak of a hybrid MMA fighter but Gracie didn't look like he watched the same film I did of Hughes before the fight. Or maybe he did and Hughes is soooo strong that there was nothing Royce could've done. Gracie looked humiliated after the fight and angry and his arm had to be hurt.
Hughes/gracie....It ends in the first round
- Thread starter Shogun
- Start date
Wow,
The sport of MMA has come full circle.
My POV,
As far as the Gracie legend. No harm done. Royce will be back. Royce sans Gi looked a little out of place (not that it would have changed the outcome). Personally, I think Royce should be a trainer of Champions at this phase in his career.
Matt Hughes. Great job!! Total domination. Position then punch/pound. (especially hard to admit after being a Gracie Student for 11 years) Props to God was a classy touch. All the best to a most worthy and humble champion.
I would like to see the line that has probably developed at the doors of the Millitech (sp??) gym.
The sport of MMA has come full circle.
My POV,
As far as the Gracie legend. No harm done. Royce will be back. Royce sans Gi looked a little out of place (not that it would have changed the outcome). Personally, I think Royce should be a trainer of Champions at this phase in his career.
Matt Hughes. Great job!! Total domination. Position then punch/pound. (especially hard to admit after being a Gracie Student for 11 years) Props to God was a classy touch. All the best to a most worthy and humble champion.
I would like to see the line that has probably developed at the doors of the Millitech (sp??) gym.
Hughes has dominated over top contenders in the same way and finished them just as fast. Gracie, IMO, was over confident and picked the fight poorly. He should have done a few warm up fights first, but I imagine 1.3 million is hard to say no too 
jujutsu_indonesia
Black Belt
James Clifton said:
very true indeed, very very true!
green meanie
Master Black Belt
It's come full circle... for the moment anyway. The Gracie's gave the martial arts a bit of a kickstart and forced it to evolve... but failed to evolve with it. It's gotta be a bitter pill when your forced to take a dose of your own medicine. :asian:
AceHBK
Master Black Belt
green meanie said:
So with that you are saying the Gracie system has not evolved with the times? I cant agree with that point. Yes Matt beat Royce but I won't say that with that, Matt beat a whole system. It was a fight between fighters and not systems. Do you think he could have easily beaten Rickson?
green meanie
Master Black Belt
AceHBK said:
Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying. I think the Gracie's have fallen behind the times. When Royce was king of the world being in BJJ alone was enough; now it's just part of the MMA equation. Some have worked hard to fill in the missing pieces but most haven't. In their defense it proably isn't easy. It's one thing to be a BJJ practitioner and decide to cross-train. It's another to have this be your family's heritage and legacy.
Don't think I'm not a fan, I am. I've been in this from the beginning and I'm not trying to kick the guy when he's down. But you watch those old fights and look at where this is now and tell me that this isn't a whole different animal. I think Royce looked at Hughes like it was just another fight with a wrestler; thought he'd send him home like he did Severn and the rest. He underestimated him and he paid for it. :asian:
green meanie said:
Yes, I have to agree with this also! I too, have been following the UFC since its birth, but it is very apparent, that these types of events have changed/evolved since the start. We had one dimensional fighters in the ring, but now, everyone is getting as well rounded as they can. I realize that Royce was said to have been doing some boxing, but I didn't see any punches or kicks thrown by him that really made me go "WOW!"
Mike
AceHBK
Master Black Belt
I see where you are coming from.
I can say yes, Royce failed to adapt with the times and changes that have occured in UFC.
Will i say that he represents all BJJ, no.
Just like any other style, someone will get beat but it doesnt prove that their STYLE is totally ineffective. You are basically saying that their school in Torrence is doing nothing but teaching people an old/outdated way to fight.
As many people know, Royce was not the best in the family. Now dont get me wrong im not a BJJ or JJ guy, I do TMA. I think we all say that when someone gets beat we like to associate them with the style and criticizing that style instead of just that fighter. If another Gracie say Rickson challenged Matt next and won, then that whole thing about style gets thrown out the window.
I will say that Royce was just plainly out JJ by Hughes. Blame it on age, cockiness, strength, etc. I think we move too fast when we say that Matt proved a whole style has been defeated by him.
I can say yes, Royce failed to adapt with the times and changes that have occured in UFC.
Will i say that he represents all BJJ, no.
Just like any other style, someone will get beat but it doesnt prove that their STYLE is totally ineffective. You are basically saying that their school in Torrence is doing nothing but teaching people an old/outdated way to fight.
As many people know, Royce was not the best in the family. Now dont get me wrong im not a BJJ or JJ guy, I do TMA. I think we all say that when someone gets beat we like to associate them with the style and criticizing that style instead of just that fighter. If another Gracie say Rickson challenged Matt next and won, then that whole thing about style gets thrown out the window.
I will say that Royce was just plainly out JJ by Hughes. Blame it on age, cockiness, strength, etc. I think we move too fast when we say that Matt proved a whole style has been defeated by him.
AceHBK said:
My appologies if I gave the wrong impression in my post. I will give credit where credit is due though, and IMHO, if it wasn't for the Gracies, I have a feeling that the MMA/NHB world wouldn't be where it is today, at least in the US anyway. They certainly opened many eyes to the importance of understanding the ground.
As for saying that what they teaching is not effective, I think that people look at many arts and think that. Look at some posts on this forum, and we'll see many example of people bashing Bujinkan, Kenpo, CMA and the list can go on and on. My opinion and one that I stand by, is it all comes down to how someone trains. If we stop and think about it, it all goes back to being one dimensional. I have not been to the Torrance academy, but I'm sure they're teaching some effective ground methods. But I also think its important to cross train or cross reference other arts as well.
Very possible that if they fought again, there would be a different outcome. Its all a big chess game and who can out play who. BJJ guys have fought and won against other styles and they themselves have been beaten. I don't think its the style but the person and how they played the game that day.
Mike
swiftpete
Blue Belt
I've watched royce gracie from ufc 1 and have always been a fan. But he got totally done in this fight. When I saw him give up his back to hughes the first thing i thought was its like a mirror of one of gracies normal fights, I've seen him take peoples backs so many times. Ah well he got rumped deeply and I'm sure he's feeling pretty sheepish now but then hughes is obviously a great fighter and looks strong as an ox.
I winced when i watched his arm get bent, I can't believe he didn't tap to that, shows he must be a pretty tough bloke cos a lot of people, myself included would have tapped like mad if their arm was being bent backwards!
I think he underestimated hughes and has paid for it big time.
I winced when i watched his arm get bent, I can't believe he didn't tap to that, shows he must be a pretty tough bloke cos a lot of people, myself included would have tapped like mad if their arm was being bent backwards!
I think he underestimated hughes and has paid for it big time.
green meanie said:
I'm gonna disagree slightly, I think there is more too it then that.
Royce never really came off as a natural athlete, that was part of the reason he was chosen to represent the style over Rickson.
I think he has evloved, quite a bit, "technically" he may still be better on he ground then Matt, tough to say based of that. But in terms of natural athletic ability Matt's got it far greater then Royce. He's stronger, faster and more explosive, and those things go along way.
Royce proved that you could beat skilled opponents that where a lot bigger, and a lot stronger then you, and came across as a guy of average natural abilities that trained hard. Now that there are elite athletes playing the game WITH top level skills, it's a whole new game.
