How would you describe kenpo?

[Brother John]

so the infinite insights series wont teach me anything unless im studying AK?

Sure.... it'll teach you ABOUT Kenpo, but it won't teach you Kenpo.
Not even close.

Your Brother
John

 

[7starmantis]

I suggest buying the Infinite Insight series or the Encyclopedia of Kenpo for an indepth view of the terminolgy, but I seriously doubt you could extrapolate much from it if you're not actively studying the system.

DarK LorD

No need for the attitude. Its sad when people express intrest in an art and its practitioners are too high and mighty to help out. I assume you would be surprised at what some of us could extrapolate with knowledge of other systems. If its hard to explain thats cool, I was simply asking for a generic listing of some core principles or concepts. Dont assume everyone who askes about Kenpo is doing so in order to degrade it in some way. Your posts seem degrading enough on their own.

I appologize if I offended in some way by asking about Kenpo, I'm just curious as to its principles and techniques. I dont have much exposure to it and I find it interesting, especially since it seems we share some common ground (kenpo vs CMA).

whew,
7sm

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

No need for the attitude. Its sad when people express intrest in an art and its practitioners are too high and mighty to help out. I assume you would be surprised at what some of us could extrapolate with knowledge of other systems. If its hard to explain thats cool, I was simply asking for a generic listing of some core principles or concepts. Dont assume everyone who askes about Kenpo is doing so in order to degrade it in some way. Your posts seem degrading enough on their own.

I appologize if I offended in some way by asking about Kenpo, I'm just curious as to its principles and techniques. I dont have much exposure to it and I find it interesting, especially since it seems we share some common ground (kenpo vs CMA).

whew,
7sm

I haven't given attitude, I have given answers to your questions of core principles, and suggested the best approach to learn said principles. I can't see why you would think anything otherwise, after all, it's only text.

DarK LorD

 

[Brother John]

7star...
keep in mind, it's usually difficult to really sense someones intent through an internet forum. I'm not defending Clyde, he's an raskally critter at best....but I think it'd be best to take what he's saying at face value here.

Here's a link to a VERY inadequate list of principles and concepts that are generally addressed in the study of American Kenpo Karate. It's really just a skeleton view...but it's food for thought.
The "Encyclopedia of American Kenpo" devotes an entire chapter to what this list sums up in a few lines...
http://www.kenponet.com/flame/articles/dict.html

hope you find it useful.

The concepts and principles are NO doubt something that could be used to great benefit in other arts. Indeed you'll probably find a good many things that are already a part of the arts you know, but maybe worded or applied differently. I highly encourage you though, if you are really interested in learning more about what Kenpo realy is or does....Go find a school and check it out first hand.
I did. and it's made all the difference.

Your Brother
John

 

[7starmantis]

I understand the complexities of internet communication and hense take everything at face value. That aside, your is the first post to actually offer any answer to my questions of core principles.

Thank you, I'll check out your link,
7sm

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I understand the complexities of internet communication and hense take everything at face value. 7sm

NO, you didn't take my comments at face value, hence your rebuttal post replying I'm giving you attitude.

DarK LorD

 

[7starmantis]

NO, you didn't take my comments at face value, hence your rebuttal post replying I'm giving you attitude.

DarK LorD

OK man, time to drop it and get back to the topic of the thread.....thanks

 

[7starmantis]

Here's a link to a VERY inadequate list of principles and concepts that are generally addressed in the study of American Kenpo Karate. It's really just a skeleton view...but it's food for thought.
The "Encyclopedia of American Kenpo" devotes an entire chapter to what this list sums up in a few lines...
http://www.kenponet.com/flame/articles/dict.html

hope you find it useful.

Ok, I looked at the link, its a great resource, but I'm still missing what I'm looking for. Its an encyclopedic refrence of terms and concepts, but I guess what I'm asking is, does kenpo have a set core of fighting principles. See, in mantis kung fu we have specific principles that we apply while fighting, such as "sticking" (Jeem Lim). We practice to stay in contact with the opponent at all times during the fight. Does Kenpo hold itself to principles in this way? Say, redirecting inside punches and such?

I mean fighting is in no way controled or boxed in by specifics, but there are principels of the mantis system that we hold to. We wouldn't for example block force with force. That is a principle of the mantis system that we "obey" while fighting. Does kenpo have these type of principles that must be adheared too in order to be kenpo?

I may not be making myself clear?

7sm

 

[MJS]

Ok, I looked at the link, its a great resource, but I'm still missing what I'm looking for. Its an encyclopedic refrence of terms and concepts, but I guess what I'm asking is, does kenpo have a set core of fighting principles. See, in mantis kung fu we have specific principles that we apply while fighting, such as "sticking" (Jeem Lim). We practice to stay in contact with the opponent at all times during the fight. Does Kenpo hold itself to principles in this way? Say, redirecting inside punches and such?

I mean fighting is in no way controled or boxed in by specifics, but there are principels of the mantis system that we hold to. We wouldn't for example block force with force. That is a principle of the mantis system that we "obey" while fighting. Does kenpo have these type of principles that must be adheared too in order to be kenpo?

I may not be making myself clear?

7sm

Yes, there are certain principles/concepts that we have. Extremely effective in close, that 'sticking' term that you used above would apply here. Principles of applying the proper strike to acheive the desired goal are also included. The techniques also contain moves that will check the attackers zones: Height, width and depth. Checking and controlling would also aid in controlling the zones. You will also hear mention of the Universal Pattern. Looking at the pattern, it provides direction for every angle that the hand and foot can travel. Straight lines, curved lines, circles, etc.

I hope that this was a help.

Mike

 

[7starmantis]

Yes it does. So then would there be different techniques to be used at or with these different zones?

7sm

 

[pete]

try to explain what a steak tastes like to a vegetarian. check out this link for some examples of a guy that does kenpo right. if you like what you see, look around. i hear there is a lot of good kenpo in texas.


http://www.ltatum.com/TipOfTheWeekArchives.html

 

[Brother John]

As far as a core, are you asking if there are over-all tactics that are always adhered to?
Yes and no. We've got lots of principles and concepts, but these are aids to help us maximize our abilities, they don't confine us. There is NO "Golden Rule" of Kenpo. Infact that's what my first instructor always said: "The ONLY golden rule in Kenpo is that there is NO golden rule in Kenpo."
But the principles that I think are the closest to forming a tactical "Core" of Kenpo are these:

Continuity of Motion - The principle that no move passes from one position to another without being utilized effectively. Once we set our bodies in motion, we don’t stop until the conflict is over. The jerky, start and stop motion, must be ironed out so that the motions are fluid and contiguous.

Economy of Motion - the concept of not over-moving. Relates to Point of Origin. Also relates to doing as much as you can saying as little as possible. Stated simply: DON’T WASTE MOTION. Each action has a use and a purpose… no empty motion.

Tailoring - fitting moves to your body size, shape, and strength in order to maximize the effectiveness of your physical efforts. American Kenpo is an art to serve the practitioner, not one the practitioner must ‘serve’. (based on something that Mr. Mills said)

Anatomical Positioning - the calculated striking of vital targets to force an attacker into positions that will make the next target readily available. It’s like running the table in billiards, the first strike Leads you to the next, then the next….etc. Until it’s DONE.

Logic!!! (shouldn’t need much explanation. Your techniques have got to make sense and be practical.)

Hope this helps.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

sorry that the type was so small on that. I typed it up in word first to make sure I got my spelling down pat.

Your Brother
John

 

[MJS]

Yes it does. So then would there be different techniques to be used at or with these different zones?

7sm

Depending on our attackers response as well as our response, will determine what zone is effected.

If you get the chance, check out the clips that Pete posted. Definately some great stuff!!

Mike

 

[7starmantis]

I appreciate all the help here, its really giving me good answers. I would like to be honest and say I'm not looking to study kenpo, I have way more than I can handle in my own system right now I'm just very curious about kenpo.

My next question is this. The principles that Brother John listed are ones that could very well be describing my system as well. Continuity of motion, precision of striking, no wasted movements, etc. So, seeing that we have quite a bit in common, what, if any, are the defining characteristics of kenpo? For example, if you were to see someone practicing martial arts, how would you know by looking at them if they were practicing kenpo, or would you be able to?

7sm

 

[MJS]

I appreciate all the help here, its really giving me good answers. I would like to be honest and say I'm not looking to study kenpo, I have way more than I can handle in my own system right now I'm just very curious about kenpo.

Glad I could help!! Any other questions, please feel free to ask!

My next question is this. The principles that Brother John listed are ones that could very well be describing my system as well. Continuity of motion, precision of striking, no wasted movements, etc. So, seeing that we have quite a bit in common, what, if any, are the defining characteristics of kenpo? For example, if you were to see someone practicing martial arts, how would you know by looking at them if they were practicing kenpo, or would you be able to?

Thats a tough one. Unless the person looking was familiar with many different arts, it may very well be difficult to determine what any of it was. Looking at the videos on the link that Pete posted, gives a very good idea of what Kenpo is. Comparing that to other arts out there should give you a good idea of the differences.

Mike

7sm[/quote]

 

[guito]

kenpo is pure fist hitting in pure flesh.

 

[sandan]

Always changing and adapting

 

[jdinca]

My next question is this. The principles that Brother John listed are ones that could very well be describing my system as well. Continuity of motion, precision of striking, no wasted movements, etc. So, seeing that we have quite a bit in common, what, if any, are the defining characteristics of kenpo? For example, if you were to see someone practicing martial arts, how would you know by looking at them if they were practicing kenpo, or would you be able to?

The principles are the same, it's how to achieve them that's different. It can be hard to quantify kenpo, just because there are now so many variations on the theme. As a generalization, I would say the kenpo is a harder style than traditional kung-fu and a softer style than traditional karate. It applies force against force where needed and uses the attackers force where needed.

It is possible to tell when someone is practicing kenpo.