How to write headlines by twisting peoples words:

Isn't this almost the same thing that we did to the American Indians? We wanted what they had so we rounded them up and relocated them to where we thought they should be? How many died due to starvation and illness because of that?

It might have been Howard Zinn who said "We didn't write the book on Ethnic Cleansing. But we contributed a few of the more colorful chapters." What Europeans did to Native peoples in the Americas is a series of crimes whose monstrosity can not be overstated. There was a conscious half millennium campaign of displacement, theft, cultural extinction, genocide, rape and enslavement. All you can say for the Nazis is that they didn't have quite the time or resources to do as thorough a job. But they worked at it with Teutonic efficiency.

The same can be said for the Japanese and their treatment of the Koreans and extermination of the Ainu, the rise of the Zulu Empire, the elimination of the Neanderthals, Australia's "Abo Hunts", the genocides against the Kurds, the way China has always treated its minorities, and on and on. The victors write the history books. But if we want to rise above the level of howling murderers the books have to do something besides self congratulation.

Back to Herr Schicklgruber and the Nordic ideal.

A joke at the time ran "The perfect Aryan is as slim as Göring, as tall as Goebbels and as blond as Hitler." In fact, the closest thing the Party had to that was the biggest bull-Nazi of them all the tall, good looking, athletic fanatic Reinhard Heydrich. And he was a self-hating Jew who gave up a promising career Navy career to become a throat-slitter and join the Party. I guess my Tribe's National Socialism can beat up your Tribe's National Socialism :rolleyes:
 
So Bob, you're saying he should be excused because he was a drug-abusing murderer. He was still a vicious killer who died committing a monstrous crime. As he gave death to his future let the future return only silence to him.
You're twisting my words. I don't believe at any point I said he should be "excused".

"Drug-Abusing"
At the time of his death "Chris Benoit was found to have Xanax, hydrocodone, and an elevated level of testosterone, caused by a synthetic form of testosterone, in his system. The chief medical examiner attributed the testosterone level to Benoit possibly being treated for a deficiency caused by previous steroid abuse. There was no indication that anything in Chris' body contributed to his violent behavior that led to the murder-suicide, concluding that there was no "roid-rage" involved."
Like many wrestlers, football players, and other athletes, he had taken steriods in the past.

"Murderer"
No arguement there. "Authorities have confirmed that Benoit killed his wife and son,[5] and subsequently hanged himself.[6]"

"Vicious Killer"
Depends on how you define it. There are worse ways to die.

"died committing a monstrous crime"
No, he commited suicide (which I do not recognize as a sin since sin is a man made invention, not found in all religions) after killing his family, something that I will agree is wrong, it's hardly monstrous. 9/11, the holocaust, mass graves, that's monstrous.

As to premeditation, there's no proof that the actions were premeditated, in fact the evidence says otherwise.
But, you can always ask Andre Waters and Terry Long why they commited suicide.

In any event, we're going way off topic here...shall we end the tangent or move it over to one of the Benoit threads and split off these bits?
 
There's another thread about this elsewhere on the forum.
 
i believe most of the time with premeditated murder, there are a great deal of steps to take before carrying it out. that is why i also condemn such action with the greatest disdain for that which carried it out. also, killing or even violence are not the only way.. even if the action seems sudden, i believe, that it is first only latently present- possibly measurable- waiting for its chance

still, like in the case of chris benoit how can one possibly even attempt to completely understand such a tragic mess of a family. ultimately, it really is a kind of tragedy.
just like i previously didnt accept the state of someones brain, with even a shred of reason left, as controlling the very nature of their behaviour. i cannot even accept that getting hit on the head causes you to kill. i understand the connection but it is nothing more than trivia in the face of what an individual carries out with able body.
of course, getting hit with a little dementia sounds some better than insane. but if word insane is used in this way(which it often is), i would have trouble believing it. i mean, excuses are lame, people should take responsibility for their actions.

of course someone can be tricked into killing, be full of rage and passion...i'm trust that god or whatever power does judge us(?), will be able to judge justly and fairly,- but from where we're at, killing is killing. even by accident it's a terrible thing. even killing by accident or madness, entire wars could be initiated. - furthermore, killing is so harsh on the killer himself, that many commit suicide or lose it if not completely change through the experience.



today i had an interesting talk with an interesting person...she had that classic thinking of karma, that what you do in some way comes back to you. -the idea is not new to me, but today i got this feeling again that it might well be more true than one could imagine..-
so most important i think would be to keep oneself and ones family safe and happy-


still my heart goes out to all victims of such tragic crimes such as above. i even consider the ones guilty to also be victims of hatred and their own mistakes.
just as i stated above, i do not condone killing. however, in some instances, the socalled victims, contribute greatly to the event. not saying this is the case in this family situation. but one should be careful or respectful of everyone, as one would be of a king- or a lion or an innocent child. - then one would have less chance of getting caught offguard.



switching back to the topic of will smith- one could say, this story says more about our society than it does about will smith. definately the society is greater than the individual anyhow.. i mean if one had said that tamerlan was a good man or temujin was a good man- the people of tonsof cultures wouldnt even know who they are or even care. -



j
 
I think Mr. Smith has a point in what he is saying. At a fundamnetal level, people do what they think is right. hitler's definition (name left lower case on purpose) was wrong, atleast to us. So, in that sense, I agree with what Mr. Smith said.
Points I argue with: 1. Why "reprogramming"? that has such a negitive bais to it. Why not just, "we'll let God decide, after we use a 50 cal. rifle to do what we think is right"? (sorry, moment of cruel humor).
2. The obvious misquoting.
3. Where did this come from? When would some one ask such a question? Would you go up to one of your freinds and go "so, what do you think of hitler?"
 
At this point in time, it should only be considered "news" if a celebrity manages to make some sense during an interview.

Memo to Will Smith: If you can't discuss a subject in a clear enough fashion to avoid giving the impression that all a deranged anti-semitic butcher needs is Scientology, then it is not best to talk of it at all. Instead, tell us how lucky you are that Jada stays with you.
 
Uh Bob, strangling your wife and child is pretty damned monstrous. The suicide was icing on the cake at the end of the affair. He died as part of a multiple murder and suicide.

"There are worse ways to die"? He only killed his immediate family and not a dozen other people? Good Lord, do you hear the words that are coming out of your mouth? He murdered his ****ing family. He betrayed his loved ones in the worst possible way. He forced his son to take illegal drugs. He charmed or coerced his wife back after she left him under the classic battered woman's circumstances and not, it seems, for the first time. He repaid her trust with death.

But he didn't actually strangle them with barbed wire, so we're supposed to have sympathy for him.

He could have refrained from murdering them. He could have failed to leave an out of town engagement either to murder them or to return to the scene of his depravity and kill himself depending on which version of the official reports is correct. If he wanted them out of his life he could have left. Men do that all the time. If he wanted to hurt someone he could have gotten in a fight with someone who could defend himself instead of women and children. If life was just too hard to bear he could have taken the Big Jump by himself. He could even have turned himself in and accepted the just punishment for his crime. That would have shown a little bit of courage and some sort of moral sense.

But no. He murdered helpless people whom he was supposed to love and protect and took Judas' way out. A fit of blind rage could explain one. It doesn't wash if he went to another room to snuff the other, arranged the corpses and decorated the crime scenes with bibles.

Drug abusing? By your own admission the answer is "yes". From what you say he was using a whole pharmacy of drugs without prescriptions. That makes him a criminal drug abuser. That doesn't exactly make things better.

I've got a lot of sympathy for his victims and their devastated families. For the criminal who betrayed and slaughtered them? Not so much. Let him stand before the Last Judge and excuse his crimes. I will say nothing more on the subject.
 
everyone is entitiled to their opinion. freedom does include the right to be wrong not to do wrong. no point in getting so fussy over definitions or even getting offended by somebody other than oneself.

but what i think matters even more, is that when things really get ugly, i often notice there is no room left to truely be against anything. one can only be for something. being something positive like life, love,mercy,strength -brotherhood, whatever one personally feels are good qualities. there is no need to be against anything actually,- and if one did actually come across someone that is truely evil-surprise, most of us can be sometimes-then one must have solutions other than pulling out ones hair bluntly telling the others they are wrong . that may not make things any better. if anything i imagine it could make the actual state of things worse. - ok, that's overexaggerating, but at least i wonder why so much trouble over some dumb words that somebody said. -
conviction and emotion can be handy tools i'll admit- but more often than not, they cause much confusion and are the source of many problems.


everyone is just speaking from their own experience. being too harsh or correct will stop people from sharing their thoughts...like a place that is too sterile that begins encroach on even the positive bacteria which in this case i compare to the true feelings of someone. no matter how we wish someone to see things how we do, it takes lots of interaction to even come to a decent understanding of what the other is thinking let alone feeling, -then influencing that is a whole different matter
. even when a large group form a collective, often each individual is still persuing his own agenda that may not or may not tie in one to one with that of the group.
blablaba...i know im rambling again



j
 
Followup:

25/12/07 Hollywood star Will Smith has expressed anger over celebrity gossip website articles that he said misinterpreted a remark he made in a Scottish newspaper about Adolf Hitler.In a story published in Daily Record, Smith was quoted as saying: "Even Hitler didn't wake up going, 'let me do the most evil thing I can do today'. I think he woke up in the morning and using a twisted, backwards logic, he set out to do what he thought was 'good'."
The quote was preceded by the writer's observation: "Remarkably, Will believes everyone is basically good."
Over the weekend, dozens of celebrity gossip websites posted articles about the comment, many saying that Smith believed that Hitler was a "good" person.
"It is an awful and disgusting lie," Smith said in a statement. "It speaks to the dangerous power of an ignorant person with a pen. I am incensed and infuriated to have to respond to such ludicrous misinterpretation."
"Adolf Hitler was a vile, heinous vicious killer responsible for one of the greatest acts of evil committed on this planet."
 
Uh Bob, strangling your wife and child is pretty damned monstrous. The suicide was icing on the cake at the end of the affair. He died as part of a multiple murder and suicide.

"There are worse ways to die"? He only killed his immediate family and not a dozen other people? Good Lord, do you hear the words that are coming out of your mouth? He murdered his ****ing family. He betrayed his loved ones in the worst possible way. He forced his son to take illegal drugs. He charmed or coerced his wife back after she left him under the classic battered woman's circumstances and not, it seems, for the first time. He repaid her trust with death.

But he didn't actually strangle them with barbed wire, so we're supposed to have sympathy for him.

He could have refrained from murdering them. He could have failed to leave an out of town engagement either to murder them or to return to the scene of his depravity and kill himself depending on which version of the official reports is correct. If he wanted them out of his life he could have left. Men do that all the time. If he wanted to hurt someone he could have gotten in a fight with someone who could defend himself instead of women and children. If life was just too hard to bear he could have taken the Big Jump by himself. He could even have turned himself in and accepted the just punishment for his crime. That would have shown a little bit of courage and some sort of moral sense.

But no. He murdered helpless people whom he was supposed to love and protect and took Judas' way out. A fit of blind rage could explain one. It doesn't wash if he went to another room to snuff the other, arranged the corpses and decorated the crime scenes with bibles.

Drug abusing? By your own admission the answer is "yes". From what you say he was using a whole pharmacy of drugs without prescriptions. That makes him a criminal drug abuser. That doesn't exactly make things better.

I've got a lot of sympathy for his victims and their devastated families. For the criminal who betrayed and slaughtered them? Not so much. Let him stand before the Last Judge and excuse his crimes. I will say nothing more on the subject.
I know exactly what I'm saying, but I guess you're right. We should ignore the evidence that the man was brain damaged and might nothave been in his right mind, after a life time of injuries. We should also condemn the Vietnam vet who had the flashback and took our a playground full of kids, or the dementia victim who drove his car through a McD.

I don't see him as a monster. To me, the monsters are the parents who smother their kids, or leave them in a car with rolled up windows in 120' heatwhile they wait in line in the nice AC cooled bank, or provide a home filled with feces and roaches to live in.

We don't know what happened in that house. You're condemning him because he took drugs -which have been used and are still used regularly- in every sport out there. Yes they were illegal, but the autopsy said -they weren't a factor-. Now, unless you have more information than has been let out, I think I'll trust the official findings.

3 drugs = whole pharmacy? Small town eh?
- Xanax : is a short-acting drug in the benzodiazepine class used to treat anxiety disorders and as an adjunctive treatment for depression.
- Hydrocodone : an effective antitussive (anti-cough) agent, and as an opiate it is also an effective analgesic for mild to moderate pain control.
- Testosterone - artificial booster due to low counts

So, an anti-anxiety drug (legal with perscription), an anti-cough agent/pain killer (legal) and something to make his wee wee work again.

"The chief medical examiner attributed the testosterone level to Benoit possibly being treated for a deficiency caused by previous steroid abuse. There was no indication that anything in Chris' body contributed to his violent behavior that led to the murder-suicide, concluding that there was no "roid-rage" involved."

Benoit wasn't a monster. Unless you're saying (again, inside unreleaased information?) that he planned this out for a while, weeks, months, years maybe? He was a guy with severe brain damage, who snapped, and unlike several other documented cases, focused his dementia on his family before ending his own life.

But, believe what you want to believe. I'll stick with the facts in that case.
What he did was wrong, but I don't put it in the same league as those who purposefully set out to kill others.

Then again, who can blame you for not having all the facts? There are 2 court cases going on right now, over his estate, with the families fighting, to determine who died first....even though the medical examiner already said.

Good thing no one's said if he had a copy of Mein Kamf in his library. They's confuse him with Will Smith. /sarcasm.
 
So....was the headline "Will Smith Now Realizes Hitler Bad"?

But only because of public pressure. . .right? What a load of crap that he had to clarify a simple statement.

It's like Britney Spears being blamed for some dumbass paparazzi putting his foot under her car's wheel for his ten seconds of fame.
 
Well, if she would just wear some underwear, he wouldn't have had to get run over now would he?
/sarcasm

;)
 
beat me to it...
Nice thing is that the damages awarded to Smith, he'll donate to charity.
Not that he needed the money anyway. :rolleyes:

It's nice to see the media held accountable, though. They don't exactly need the money either, compared to charity.
 
Back
Top