How to Receive Traditional Martial Arts Training

[Bill Mattocks]

OK so let me instead ask you a question, I am correct in thinking you are instructor yes?? If so, then what have you said to student who seem to you completely unwilling and devoid of legitimate excuse to pitch in and help take care of dojo etc? Or if not what *have* you said then what *would* you say? Say that person is me what you would say to me as instructor I am your student?? Thank you

I am only an assistant instructor; I am also an adult student. I help with the kids classes, I am not qualified to promote students yet.

I would not say anything in most circumstances. If I said anything, I would probably say it once, in person, privately.

I have all the empathy in the world for a person who tries, even if they can't do what is asked of them. I tend to lose interest in a student who clearly does not care to learn. It's not my place to solve the world's problems.

 

[jks9199]

Sorry if this was already mentioned but if you belong to a fitness gym, regardless of how fancy or expensive you are expected to wipe down the equipment after you use it.

And throw your trash away, and rack your weights...

Going to Jenna's question about fairness...

Life isn't fair. Those who put out more will likely receive more. No problem with that, because everyone has the same opportunity. And, in a small club, as Bill said, you'll know the guy who can't stay late because he gets up super early the next morning, or has child care issues. There are other ways he can "pay into" getting more than hanging around and cleaning; he might welcome new students and show them around the club, or run the clubs website, etc. In a small club, rather than a fee for service structure, everyone contributes in some fashion to keeping the club running -- or the club goes down.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This all make sense yes you have answer very nicely I am grateful thank you! and like I do not disagree with any thing you have said only I mean we cannot know the circumstances of every person and but still we adjudge someone that do not broom the hall or tidy away as unwilling or lazy and we adjudge this as not a good thing and then like you and @Bill Mattocks describe dojo operate a quiet hierarchy of deserving yes??

OK so let me instead ask you a question, I am correct in thinking you are instructor yes?? If so, then what have you said to student who seem to you completely unwilling and devoid of legitimate excuse to pitch in and help take care of dojo etc? Or if not what *have* you said then what *would* you say? Say that person is me what you would say to me as instructor I am your student?? Thank you

I don't have that problem with my program - a very small group and very little they can do to help out means nothing is ever left un-done and there's really not enough for everyone to do.

So, instead, let me speak to how I dealt with it at my instructor's school. First, by the time it gets to be an issue, the person has been training a couple of years. We really didn't expect anyone below blue belt (usually takes 18 months or so) to even catch on and start helping. Once they've been around that long, the folks working with them (instructors, senior students) tend to know their habits and how they think. We also know details of their lives, from what they share while we're all waiting for class. So, if someone has a busy schedule (busier than normal, having just enough time to make classes), an injury, or something else we're aware of, we just understand that's why they aren't doing it, and it's no big deal. If we know someone has an attitude in other ways, and we see them not helping (and we're not aware of other circumstances), one of the senior students would walk by with a broom or duster and just say something like, "Hey, can you grab a rag and get those mirrors before class?" That was usually all it took. Even folks with an attitude would generally pitch in. Those that didn't, usually just left the school as soon as they saw the students (not the instructors) had a communal expectation that everyone pitched in. They didn't fit in, and they didn't like that, so they went somewhere else. I always hoped they found someplace they fit in better.

In the rare case where someone wasn't pitching in and we had no idea why (no attitude problem, and were there in plenty of time), someone (usually the senior brown belt) would just ask. "Hey, I noticed you haven't been pitching in with the dusting and stuff, man. Is everything okay?" I can only think of two times this happened (in both cases, I was the senior brown belt). Both guys were just preoccupied with some crap going on in their lives. I got them an energetic training partner for the next few classes to work off the stress and offered my ear and a beer if they needed to talk. Eventually, when things got sorted in their lives, they were back to helping out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And throw your trash away, and rack your weights...

Going to Jenna's question about fairness...

Life isn't fair. Those who put out more will likely receive more. No problem with that, because everyone has the same opportunity. And, in a small club, as Bill said, you'll know the guy who can't stay late because he gets up super early the next morning, or has child care issues. There are other ways he can "pay into" getting more than hanging around and cleaning; he might welcome new students and show them around the club, or run the clubs website, etc. In a small club, rather than a fee for service structure, everyone contributes in some fashion to keeping the club running -- or the club goes down.

Yeah, those who can't help on a regular basis tend to find something substantial to help out with when they can. They show up with power tools when there's a big job (like a new frame around the mats, or new benches to be built, etc.) or something. In the long run, most people simply find a way to be part of the community.

 

[Jenna]

I don't have that problem with my program - a very small group and very little they can do to help out means nothing is ever left un-done and there's really not enough for everyone to do.

So, instead, let me speak to how I dealt with it at my instructor's school. First, by the time it gets to be an issue, the person has been training a couple of years. We really didn't expect anyone below blue belt (usually takes 18 months or so) to even catch on and start helping. Once they've been around that long, the folks working with them (instructors, senior students) tend to know their habits and how they think. We also know details of their lives, from what they share while we're all waiting for class. So, if someone has a busy schedule (busier than normal, having just enough time to make classes), an injury, or something else we're aware of, we just understand that's why they aren't doing it, and it's no big deal. If we know someone has an attitude in other ways, and we see them not helping (and we're not aware of other circumstances), one of the senior students would walk by with a broom or duster and just say something like, "Hey, can you grab a rag and get those mirrors before class?" That was usually all it took. Even folks with an attitude would generally pitch in. Those that didn't, usually just left the school as soon as they saw the students (not the instructors) had a communal expectation that everyone pitched in. They didn't fit in, and they didn't like that, so they went somewhere else. I always hoped they found someplace they fit in better.

In the rare case where someone wasn't pitching in and we had no idea why (no attitude problem, and were there in plenty of time), someone (usually the senior brown belt) would just ask. "Hey, I noticed you haven't been pitching in with the dusting and stuff, man. Is everything okay?" I can only think of two times this happened (in both cases, I was the senior brown belt). Both guys were just preoccupied with some crap going on in their lives. I got them an energetic training partner for the next few classes to work off the stress and offered my ear and a beer if they needed to talk. Eventually, when things got sorted in their lives, they were back to helping out.

Empathy like this that you demonstrate for the other even when their position is apparently different for your own, yes, or humble acceptance that your information is not always the complete picture, yes also, these could be first principles I would imagine in efficient resolution of any issue with other person. Thank you so much for helping me establish or clarify thought I have about this xoxo

 

[JR 137]

Funny, I was thinking of this thread when I was leaving my daughters' gymnastics class today...

My almost 4 year old and 6 year old daughters take gymnastics. The school is pretty big, with 4 different gyms/zones/whatever in it, and 100s of students. The price isn't cheap by any means, but it's priced appropriately.

They have a travel competition team. They're usually doing some sort of fundraising and have signs up asking for volunteers for the fundraisers.

I feel no obligation nor desire to volunteer. I've never been treated like a part of the gym. No special events, nothing. I pay, my kids get instruction, we leave when we're done. I do my part with tuition, they do theirs with instruction.

My dojo is nothing like that. There are plenty of dojos around me who are. I feel a sense of community in my dojo. I help out any way I realistically can. I feel no sense of community in my kids' gymnastics school. I pay, they learn, we leave. Maybe if my kids were on the travel team I'd feel a sense of community. I don't feel I should help out, unless maybe I need my car washed and the kids are doing it for $5 while I'm there.