How to improving bridging the gap?

[AC_Pilot]

If you have not read this, maybe it can help explain JKD theories a bit better than poor old humble AC :uhyeah: : http://www.icmaua.com/Journal2005.htm

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Entering, or bridging the gap can be one of the most difficult things in sparring. What strategies / tactics do you use to bridge the gap (close from kicking to punching range)? What drills do you use to hone these skills?

JPR

Run really fast in the direction of your opponent, and hope you don't get KO'd?

 

[achilles]

Samantha,

In JKD we spar a lot. While the ultimate goal is to become proficient in street fighting (functionally speaking not philosophically speaking), the experience gained from safe, sportive training is invaluable. Two thirds of the core of Jeet Kune Do are western sports, namely boxing and fencing. JKD's training is athletic and a degree of sportive training is always present. What differentiate's the training methods from arts with a sportive goal, not just means, is that we factor in training that goes outside of the rules. For instance, sometimes we put on eye goggles and spar the finger jab (coincidentally this is a very athletic endeavor in that the speed and endurance are instrumental). Another example is how we spar. I spar with boxing gloves, a helmet, shinpads, etc. It looks like kickboxing, and for the most part that is accurate, but we also add in the tools that conventional kickboxing doesn't such as the shin/knee side kick, sometimes the headbutt, etc. This is where control and concern for safety come in. There are some tools that you just don't want to use at 100% intensity. I've done amateur boxing, so I'm not scared to mix things up, but I would not want someone to side kick my knee with 100%. Sparring in JKD reflects JKD's value of understanding both the how and the why and adapting accordingly.

As far as rank goes, some instructors, myself included, have implemented a rank structure for pedagogical purposes. We don't line up according to rank or make a big deal out of it, but it is a way to keep lessons orderly and efficient not to mention a good check on the instructor to teach the full curriculum and not just his personal likes. I may not like the twist kick, but through the structure of the program I teach my students are sure to be exposed to it and they can decide whether they like it or not. In regards to rank and sparring, I think that if it is the orange belts first time sparring he is probably better off with a responsible black belt than with someone of a closer rank. If the black belt isn't full of himself and can avoid exploiting his junior classmate, his higher skill level and more refined sense of timing (which we can only hope he has with such a rank, although it is NOT guaranteed) will help him/her not injure the white belt and avoid injury from a white belt's potentially spartic movements. Furthermore, the black belt will have experienced what it was like to be the low man on the totem pole and hopefully will be able to challenge the white belt without shutting him down and exploiting the situation.


back on topic...

Another way to bridge the gap that I like is to double up on your steps (related to the steal a step in some people's definitions). The most clear example I can think of is the advance-lunge, which is done in one motion. Just like combination punching, combination footwork should be considered one unit with multiple elements. Rhythmically it shouldn't be advance-pause-lunge, but as soon as the advance is completed the lunge should begin. It is an exercise in fluid speed.

 

[Mr_Scissors]

Something sifu Lee often wrote about was creating a false sense of distance and then exploiting that. For example making use of your lunging tools but holding back sligtly on the distance that you lunge out to. After creating a sense of being just short of contact on your lunge, you explode the whole way, generally using a punch that is thrown at a slower pace (breaking rhythym) than the punches that were used with the false-distance lunges.

Often your foe will retreat and go to parry, but the parry will be off-pace because of the changed tempo of the punch (the parry lands too fast in this timing example). At the same time the retreat step will not be long enough because of the false sense of distance.

Try it out, you might like it

 

[CurtisB]

We use the curriculum that is used in the SBG as well as that used by JKDU.

The SBG has found over time and a lot of all out sparring (with body armor) that conventional trapping tends to break down. So in search for a better tool in that range they found that modified clenching from Greco-Roman works much better. When used with a modified boxing cover it makes bridging the gap much easier.

 

[Flatlander]

The SBG has found over time and a lot of all out sparring (with body armor) that conventional trapping tends to break down. So in search for a better tool in that range they found that modified clenching from Greco-Roman works much better. When used with a modified boxing cover it makes bridging the gap much easier.

I don't believe that it is fair to state that as an absolute. Truly, trapping is effective, if used in the proper context. Just as it would be incorrect to say that trapping ought be applied or attempted in all situations as a general strategy, so too would we be applying an incorrect generalization to assert that all circumstances call for a grapple. For example, I don't think that when dealing with an edged weapon, clinching is going to be a successful strategy. In that circumstance, I'd rather be knowing how to trap well. Trapping won't ever be useful if people don't practice it.

 

[CurtisB]

I can only go by my own experience and the experience of those who are much wiser than I. Burton Richardson who is famous for his trapping, is dropping it. His new curriculum is coming out some time in the next few months, and I don't think it will have any trapping at all. He says it is simple not realistic, and that there are much better things out there. It is because of his progressive philosophy, (which is the heart of JKD) that we have associated our selves with him as well as the SBG. There are other long time practitioners of JKD who are coming to the same conclusion. I personally think that in time this will be the norm. But all that being said I try not to argue a point. If you like trapping and can make it work under REAL pressure than more power to you brother, I personally will have to digress to those with much more wisdom and experience than I.

As for knife attack I would not clinch. Most knife defense and the philosophies behind them are a joke. Bottom line when a knife is involved you are probably going to get cut. The thing is, is not to get cut twice. This is the principals behind the S.T.A.B. program that the SBG and others are now using. It's all about reality not clinging to old principals that make us fill good about ourselves. One can not be loyal to a set curriculum of training. That is not realistic the law of nature is change and grow or die. But there again if you can make it work, Great.

PEACE

-Curtis

 

[Mr_Scissors]

Joe Lewis, one of the more famous JKD practitioners agrees that trapping is pretty much useless, EXCEPT as a way to go from entry to Grappling as it is a good way to set up your Lock/Takedown/Throw/ or Choke.

Personally i see most basic one-step traps (pak-sao, Lap-sao etc) as being quite useful but going into the double arm traps seem wasteful as a lock usually presents itself first. However when it's only a one-step trap one could argue that it's parrying not trapping :idunno:

 

[Andrew Green]

Tuck your chin in and force it, remember you are a fighter in a fight and you are gonna get hit no matter what you do so you'd best make the best of it.

Then if you don't get hit, Sweet!

 

[achilles]

Of courser trappling doesn't work all the time. The jab doesn't work all the time. When you can't shoot in and take your opponent down, does that mean that wrestling doesn't work? Of course not and it is obtuse to posit such a thing. I think Burton Richardson is a really good martial artist and instructor, but I have been doing martial arts for a long time and I have learned a great deal from my own experiences. I'm sure Burton offers good instruction, but, and I'm sure he agrees with this, he nor I are the final voice on JKD and combat. I'm sure he is doing what he thinks is best just as I do what I think is best. Each of us must work from our own experience, not simply accept the truth of others. I use trapping in sparring when the opportunity presents itself. When I was boxing, a lot of my opponents simply would not try and obstruct punches. The better ones would evade and the worse would just eat a punch and send one back at you. Never the less, I've used trapping on boxers and kick boxers against their parries and covers (sometimes just the "by-capture" method), and I value my own experience more than other persons' theories and experiences.

 

[JKD_Silat]

One good way to close the gap is to use PIA. This often helps by giving you cover fire to move past their kicking and punching barrier, although it isn't fool proof. The classic fake high, kick low and finger jab is a good start. Superior footwork is another good way to close the gap and score. If you have a really good lunge, you may not have to use quite so much deception which can put you at risk to be stop hit. You can also close the gap defensively by using sticky hands or by simply counter fighting. You can also use a variety of footwork tricks such as the draw step stealing a step or broken rhythm. The draw step was kind of mentioned earlier in which you begin by retreating, inducing your opponent to advance, and then all of the sudden shift to a lunge (or penetration step for wrestling). The steal a step is similar but starts by you moving forward. You start a ratio of steping with your opponent such as you advance once and he is induced to retreat once. Once he is motor set, advance and lunge. It goes from 1:1 to 2:1 and the distance his tries to maintain is broken. Broken rhythm is similar to the latter two, but it is completely random. Basically it means going when it is not your turn and being unpredictable.
Other tactics include cutting off the ring (although other physical barriers will do), evasive stepping (like the triangular steps in Kali) and a few tricks I keep for myself and my students.

Thank you for that! Great ideas for my next kickboxing fight! I used the simple foot obstruction in my last fight, and was able to bridge the gap over, and over at will. My teacher saw the video tape of the fight, and thought it was kinda cool that I was so successful with it even after the 8'th time. I found that when fighting, gross motor skills like that work best for me.

 

[JKogas]

I don't believe that it is fair to state that as an absolute. Truly, trapping is effective, if used in the proper context. Just as it would be incorrect to say that trapping ought be applied or attempted in all situations as a general strategy, so too would we be applying an incorrect generalization to assert that all circumstances call for a grapple.

What exactly IS 'trapping'? If it is merely an imobilization attack, then sure, trapping works and works well - depending on how it's used.

Are we using double pak sao or an underhook and bicep control? I've done both. I can (speaking only for myself) state that the wrestling immobilizations work tremendously better than the wing chun immobilizations.

For example, I don't think that when dealing with an edged weapon, clinching is going to be a successful strategy. In that circumstance, I'd rather be knowing how to trap well. Trapping won't ever be useful if people don't practice it. [/b]

Isn't clinching just another form of trapping, or, not?

I don't think I want to be "trapping" in the classical sense, ANY edged weapon. In fact, I don't want to be in the same vicinity. However if pressed, the clinching performed against edged weapons (Karl Tanswell's STAB, which is based upon the 2-on-1) seems to work just fine and is in my opinion, much higher percentage. In the end, it all comes down to what the individual can "DO".

As long as it's pressured tested and it works for you, it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else thinks.


-John

 

[Flatlander]

What exactly IS 'trapping'? If it is merely an imobilization attack, then sure, trapping works and works well - depending on how it's used. <snip>
Isn't clinching just another form of trapping, or, not?

Good question. I have begun a discussion on specifically that right here.

I don't think I want to be "trapping" in the classical sense, ANY edged weapon.

What appeals to me about what you refer to as "classical" trappping is the non-committment inherent in the check, as opposed to the restrictiveness of a clinch or grab. It allows the checking appendage the freedom to move about and find holes. I have spent a lot of time working on my "stickyness", which I have found works very well as a complement to the trap in terms of allowing me the freedom of movement, yet still maintaining a measure of control. Having worked the blade extensively (as a fraction of my overall training), I have come to understand that a fixed position; i.e. a grasping hand; makes for a good target for that blade, and is easily reversed. Due to this, my preference is to remain mobile and fluid if dealing with an edged weapon.

Of course, the caveat must be added that I haven't had to do any of this live, so, who knows what happens then.

As long as it's pressured tested and it works for you, it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else thinks.

This is entirely true. :asian:

 

[NotQuiteDead]

As for knife attack I would not clinch. Most knife defense and the philosophies behind them are a joke. Bottom line when a knife is involved you are probably going to get cut. The thing is, is not to get cut twice. This is the principals behind the S.T.A.B. program that the SBG and others are now using.

I'm just curious, why don't you consider the 2-on-1 (from the S.T.A.B. clip I've seen it looks like it is common in that program) a 'clinch'? It's controlling an area of the opponent's body while standing, just like like an under hook, over hook, etc.

 

[achilles]

I agree with the other posts that trapping and clinching are really one in the same. Frequently tools referred to as trapping tools involve less commitment (with checking further on the spectrum), but it all goes back to what Bruce Lee called immobilization attack. The troubles lie in our mental constructs. What is a clinch to one person is a trap to another and a complete waste of time to some. I think a better way to spend our time is to research for our own unique experience rather than getting into semantic arguments.

As far as the knife goes, I believe Lameco Escrima uses the two on one, but they call it sinigro I believe (not being a Lameco man myself I am not saying this with 100% confidence). It is extremely useful to me when doing empty hand vs. knife sparring and flows well from the Pekiti Tirsia or Illustrisimo tapping methods. It offers a good amount of control, but is easy to bail on if need be.

Back to closing the gap, the stutter step is a good way to close the gap against a wary opponent. Take a small step that elicits a reaction, then follow behind that reaction. Also, if someone won't let you close the gap, you might try backing up yourself and using ABD.

 

[JKogas]

Back to closing the gap, the stutter step is a good way to close the gap against a wary opponent. Take a small step that elicits a reaction, then follow behind that reaction. Also, if someone won't let you close the gap, you might try backing up yourself and using ABD.

Good thing (getting back on topic)....


Anyone use the elbow destruction to move in behind? Man that works like gang busters for me. I've been using that for years against boxers with a high degree of success. Timing is important (as it is with everything) for that to work, but if someone is really trying to hit you, they're going to be moving in (if you're setting up just out of range) to hit you. Cut that movement off by moving into him with the spike up and suddenly you're inside, in clinching range. Now tie up control.


-John