How to handle the aggressive new guy?

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Raise the expectation to a game that is smooth, technical, and glides from move to move...with the understanding that the highest level of skill is not dramatic or effortful.

If that doesn't work, put him to sleep everytime he starts getting aggressive. Simple conditioning. If he survives the experience, he will modify his behavior. In old karate days, we would bang up the guy pretty good for bringing that energy to the mat. Now, with liability and legal issues at the forefront, you can't really take it to that level with karate. But with grappling, getting put to sleep or jacked really hard in a hold is part of the training. This makes it easy to regulate the cocky young ones by sending them away sore and sleepy.

Good Luck,

Dave

 

[Bod]

I would make it immediately clear that as soon as you tap the pressure is released. It's that simple. Tell him you won't roll with him unless he abides by that one very simple rule of safe practice.

I would be tempted to back mount a guy like that and tie up his arms so he can't tap, then put him to sleep. It won't hurt him. But this is not leading by example.

In my club it was everybodys' job to explain the rules to the new guys. Release the pressure when you tap. Full stop.

 

[Hollywood1340]

Make him Uke.

 

[loki09789]

Make him Uke.

I've tried that at different times myself. It depends on the guy/girl. If it is an ego thing, they suck because they won't simulate or work with the person. They will cause problems because they will constantly either do or say thing that 'prove' that "that sheet won't work on me...." instead of trying to help the other person learn.

 

[Storm911]

Where I study BJJ at, I was told on the first night about letting go when someone taps. I was told that "you get what you give". I knew that what he meant was, if you get too rough with someone, someone will get just as rough with you. The other students were cool, but I knew they were more than able to enforce it. So we have never have any problems. Where I study TKD at, some times people get a little too rough, and if they don't respond to the warning from the other person , everyone else usually turns it up a notch with that person. This almost always stops the problem if they are new, when at the end of the night, someone ( another student ) pulls that person to the side and tells him what the deal is. We rarely have problems , being that my school is kind of like a small family. If he is a new guy, give him a little bit of leeway at first, unless he thinks he is a bad--s and enjoys hurting people..... Then its open season on him... -J Lesko

 

[JDenz]

Some of it has to do with the other people that he trained with. I go pretty hard whne I roll I can take it easy though. I mean I am training to fight and alot of other people don't train like that. I think you have to learn to roll to the level of the people that you are rolling with. When I am in a class I always try and roll with the guys that do compatitions rather then the guys that are just there to learn so I can roll hard. There is never any excuss to not let go when someone taps though that is just ignorant. Ego at the door.

 

[MJS]

I've seen some schools, where it seems as if the people are there to just see how tough they are, rather than trying to actually learn anything. As I said before, I certainly have no problem with taking it to the next level, but it has to be agreed upon by both people involved.

IMO, I think that its very important to get the positions down first before worrying about the actual techniques: Locks, chokes, etc. If you don't have the positions, all the techs. in the world are not going to help you.

Just my .02!

Mike

 

[rutherford]

There is never any excuss to not let go when someone taps though that is just ignorant. Ego at the door.

Hell, I'm slightly worried that I'll be in a self defense situation, the person will tap, and I'll let go!

There's some great advice in this thread.

However, I want to reiterate that it's not always the new guy's fault. He could be nervous, he could be used to different a training intensity, etc. Hell, just last Tuesday I came at Uke way too fast. The instructor had just pointed out to me on something I knew was wrong, but couldn't get to work right. He was still watching, and in an attempt to just force the technique I used way too much speed and power.

I immediately said, "I'm sorry, Dan. I came at you way too fast there." And as we repeated through the next couple iterations, I talked with him about my problem. Taking my mind off the technique, it came out perfectly for me.

The important thing is to talk it out. If you say, "Hey, that was a good knee to my head, but lets take the intensity down a little and work on skill." I'll bet you get a good response.

If not, toss the guy. He'd be happier training somewhere else anyways.

 

[SammyB57]

You need to explain to him COMPETITION is where you try to kill people. Training is just working on techniques to get better. Some people just don't get it. So tap them out and slam them on their head.... or just don't roll with them. Bring it up to your instructor, he is there for your safety. I see you are a white belt.... ask one of the brown's or blacks to give him a lesson in humility.

 

[SammyB57]

Hell, I'm slightly worried that I'll be in a self defense situation, the person will tap, and I'll let go!

There's some great advice in this thread.

However, I want to reiterate that it's not always the new guy's fault. He could be nervous, he could be used to different a training intensity, etc. Hell, just last Tuesday I came at Uke way too fast. The instructor had just pointed out to me on something I knew was wrong, but couldn't get to work right. He was still watching, and in an attempt to just force the technique I used way too much speed and power.

I immediately said, "I'm sorry, Dan. I came at you way too fast there." And as we repeated through the next couple iterations, I talked with him about my problem. Taking my mind off the technique, it came out perfectly for me.

The important thing is to talk it out. If you say, "Hey, that was a good knee to my head, but lets take the intensity down a little and work on skill." I'll bet you get a good response.

If not, toss the guy. He'd be happier training somewhere else anyways.

Grappling free sparring is a little different. You aren't trying to knee to the head. There is no uke and tori. And in self-defense.... you won't let go. I go easy in training all the time, but in competition I hang on to submissions for dear life. The mindset in class and in an actual contest (be it street or sport) are totally different.

 

[Bod]

You don't have to let go immediately if you are worried about getting into bad habits for the street, just ease up a little on the choke or lock and count to three before letting go.

There is a world of difference between letting up while keeping control and cranking it on a little more. Everyone in grappling for more than a few weeks knows that getting a lock or choke on is the difficult part, keeping it once you are at the pain point is easy.

 

[rutherford]

You don't have to let go immediately if you are worried about getting into bad habits for the street, just ease up a little on the choke or lock and count to three before letting go.

Well, I was making a joke.

When I grapple, I always let up immediately. I think this is definitely the safest course.

But then, I also - usually - strike in our grappling sparring. So, while I wouldn't drive my knee into somebody's head if it was resting on the ground, I would definitely toss one in if the oppertunity was there. I say "usually" because I always talk to sparring partners before any play. With folks I know well, it's usually very short and just to confirm expectations. Sometimes, somebody really wants to work on a particular thing. It's all good.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I usually just play as rough as they want.

 

[JKogas]

If people are going to be rolling / sparring, adequate suipervision "should" eliminate most of this behavior. Often this supervision isn't in place as it should be though. I've been to schools where it often wasn't.

Naturally, some ground rules need to be in place as well with the consequences for breaking them clearly established. This isn't often the case either. It all comes down to the instructor/coach.

-John

 

[kingkong89]

i have exsperienced this a few times. when this happens you tell him/her to be nice and take it easy. if they don't listen ry once more then go to their level.

 

[BJJMichigan]

I happened to notice that this thread got "bumped up" so I thought I would put in my "two cents" on the issue of dealing with Newbies. I am of the mindset that all of us were "new" to our martial art of choice and in BJJ its very easy to get "caught up in the speed of the sparring". I know that when I started as a white belt I unfornately tried to compensate my lack of technique with strength which I think is common for most newbies as that is pretty much all they have going for them to combat technique in the early stages of there training.

My current approach to the noobs is to try and be proactive with the newbie and try to find out what they're wanting to work on and will go from there. Most of the time the "newbies" are honest in there intent to learn, occassionaly you will get the A-hole who just wants to test himself on others. For those unwilling to try and learn, I think it better to show them that technique overrules strength. My favorite thing to do is show ZERO emotion when dealing with A-holes. Just have a very neutral, all business look when I am applying submissions almost a look of being bored. That usually takes the "aggressiveness" out of em pretty quick.

 

[FuriousGeorge]

The best way to handle the agressive new guy in my book is to play even more passivly and relaxed. Newbies, especially agressive ones, are usually spastic and off ballance and they leave lots of space. I play guard, make it look like i'm going to snooze while they drive into me. Then snatch an armbar or a triangle or something when they hand it to me on a platter. uma platas are fun to catch on these people too, because chances are they have no idea what one is or how to roll out of it. After a few practices of exhausting themselves by wasting their energy, they'll start to figure out how to relax a little...thats when you have to be afraid.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The best way to handle the agressive new guy in my book is to play even more passivly and relaxed. Newbies, especially agressive ones, are usually spastic and off ballance and they leave lots of space. I play guard, make it look like i'm going to snooze while they drive into me. Then snatch an armbar or a triangle or something when they hand it to me on a platter. uma platas are fun to catch on these people too, because chances are they have no idea what one is or how to roll out of it. After a few practices of exhausting themselves by wasting their energy, they'll start to figure out how to relax a little...thats when you have to be afraid.

Definately good advice! Wait, be patient and relaxed. Then when they make a mistake or are winded show them the error of their way.

 

[pinky]

ya i have one guy in my class when we would sparr half contact he would go full contact i mean kicking in the head punching kneeing etc even when the girls would say they wanted to go easy he would hit them hard so i just pulled him aside and talked to him i dont know if it worked because he quite coming.

 

[Beginner's Mind]

In my Wing Chun class, I was once given a new guy as a partner. Turns out, he's got his head full of wrong ideas.

We were doing a very simple hand drill which didn't even resemble a fight (static stance, passive hand tucked in), but he kept trying to trick me and strike me as if this was real sparring.

The Sifu warned him about a hundred times, but the guy just took it to mean he was too advanced for the class. I tried to explain the purpose of the drill, but the guy lectured me to "toughen up."

So I said, "look, I'm a beginner. I haven't learned the proper control yet and if you come at me with tricks, I don't know how I'll react."

And he says, "whatever you throw at me, I can handle."

The next thing is, he's lying on the floor doubled up, gasping for breath, and I said, with my politest smile, "I told you I was a beginner - you really had to go slow with me when I asked." He replies I'm an aggressive idiot and, after the training, leaves never to be seen again.

Now, did I really act like an idiot? Perhaps. But I like to think I showed the guy how he was acting to me, and also that his view of himself as a tough fighter was just his overactive imagination. And anyway, it's better he left before he injured someone and disrupted more class...