With certain students who always go full force in sparring? Since I'm a 2nd degree and they are first degrees I typically ignore it. The hard hitting I don't mind, it's more the lack of control. Despite the teacher saying a certain round is light contact, so we can work on new techniques, they'll go as hard as possible which defeats the purpose of that round! Today though was the day that bothered me the most. We were doing regular sparring, so take downs and controlled submissions allowed. My partner slammed my head in the ground (thank fully on a mat) so hard I'm pretty sure I have a concussion (dizzy, off balance, in a fog for about 30-60 min afterwards). Not really necessary IMO. We shouldn't be looking to beat up each other, we should be working with each other. Just needed to vent.
How to deal...?
- Thread starter Tiger-eye
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True about the light spar, but I shouldn't be worried about cracking a rib if I miss a kick here or there (or breaking my nose). I do try to give them a few warning kicks that are a little harder so they back off but I've got to Be careful as they are teens and I'm the adult (smaller than most of them but alas an adult).
hoshin1600
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as time goes on i have had many "remember the good ole' days" conversations and your comments are nothing out of the ordinary. now every situation and every person is different but i have heard a few times that the person going to hard was a little intimidated by the higher ups and they felt like they needed to go harder because they were working with a higher rank person and didnt want to be seen as "not as good" or "too soft" . "i thought i needed to go harder to give you guys something to work with"
this may or may not be the case. sometimes people just have a bad attitude. i have kindly warned people they needed to slow down and go easy, i ll repeat this one or twice then ill knock em hard once and say directly "i told you to go easy and slow down,, if you go hard,, i will go hard"
this can work or it can come off as a threat and make them go harder. there is always an unspoken pecking order in the school. you will have to know where you stand and if your not in a position to really thump this person and make them rethink their attitude then you will have to avoid them.
a good teacher or coach should see this behavior and pair this person with someone who will calm him down
this may or may not be the case. sometimes people just have a bad attitude. i have kindly warned people they needed to slow down and go easy, i ll repeat this one or twice then ill knock em hard once and say directly "i told you to go easy and slow down,, if you go hard,, i will go hard"
this can work or it can come off as a threat and make them go harder. there is always an unspoken pecking order in the school. you will have to know where you stand and if your not in a position to really thump this person and make them rethink their attitude then you will have to avoid them.
a good teacher or coach should see this behavior and pair this person with someone who will calm him down
Play it by ear, of course. Talk it out, maybe. Maybe back off a bit. Maybe have someone else take a role in it. Maybe impose your will with reckless abandon and malice aforethought.
Bite on that mouthpiece and grin. All part of the dojo experience.
Bite on that mouthpiece and grin. All part of the dojo experience.
Brown belts and new black belts seem to look like a couple of rams going at it. One thing that is useful to develop is to let the other person do all the work. Work your corners so you aren't there when they come swinging.
You may want to explain the benefits of actually lowering the intensity. The types that always feel that they need to go all out tend not to allow themselves or others the opportunity to learn to apply things in a free flowing environment. You need a live, yet low-pressure, non-competitive environment in order to develop good intuition and an understanding of a wide variety of principles or techniques. Essentially, "play" is important to develop many attributes. Refusing to do so is just denying yourself a lot of great learning opportunities.
I've touched hands with people lacking control on a few occasions. In the Wing Chun world, they tend to be individuals who try to overpower you with strength, or, more commonly, speed -- executing whatever combinations they know as fast and sloppily as they can get away with. I'm not even that experienced, nor the most "sensitive" individual, but even I can find holes everywhere when people do this, so I just give them a bit of extra forward intent and let my hands shoot in. I've gotten smacked with uncontrolled punches in the process a few times, but made my point nonetheless.
The thing is, though, that it's probably better for everyone if you correct them on the spot. In one case, I rolled with just such a guy (from a visiting school) and, after initially being surprised by the level of intensity, took advantage of his poor structure and sloppy technique and connected with a few solid palm strikes to make my point. But later that session, he was paired up with someone else who he wound up hurting. So, it would have been better for everyone had I simply corrected him verbally, and in a more direct manner.
I'm by no means that experienced in any of the arts that I study, but I will correct my training partners if I feel that I notice something that they don't, or that I can help them in some way. I've found that it's almost always appreciated. After all, that's what pairing up and practicing is about. So, just explain to him the benefits of going softer next time.
I've touched hands with people lacking control on a few occasions. In the Wing Chun world, they tend to be individuals who try to overpower you with strength, or, more commonly, speed -- executing whatever combinations they know as fast and sloppily as they can get away with. I'm not even that experienced, nor the most "sensitive" individual, but even I can find holes everywhere when people do this, so I just give them a bit of extra forward intent and let my hands shoot in. I've gotten smacked with uncontrolled punches in the process a few times, but made my point nonetheless.
The thing is, though, that it's probably better for everyone if you correct them on the spot. In one case, I rolled with just such a guy (from a visiting school) and, after initially being surprised by the level of intensity, took advantage of his poor structure and sloppy technique and connected with a few solid palm strikes to make my point. But later that session, he was paired up with someone else who he wound up hurting. So, it would have been better for everyone had I simply corrected him verbally, and in a more direct manner.
I'm by no means that experienced in any of the arts that I study, but I will correct my training partners if I feel that I notice something that they don't, or that I can help them in some way. I've found that it's almost always appreciated. After all, that's what pairing up and practicing is about. So, just explain to him the benefits of going softer next time.
drop bear
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A couple of issues you want to consider.
you have a duty to protect yourself at all times when sparring. So if they pace up and you don't you will subject yourself to a risk that they are not. And that is not fair.
And instantly pacing up is a viable fight winning tactic. And you want to condition your response to be able to handle that in a professional manner.
Ask them to act like black belts, and stop trying to win so y'all can learn something.
Danny T
Senior Master
If this is happening often then the instructor/coach is doing a bad job of maintaining control of the sparring area. When it does happen it is usually with those who have little sparring time and/or it is someone wanting to prove themselves. EGO!
When I have my students do light sparring I usual instruct no more than 50% power or speed. If anyone goes faster or harder then you will be called down for it. Don't embarrass yourself by being a bad training partner. If you do it twice everyone will get a free punch or kick on you and then you no longer get to spar. You don't want that then don't be a jerk and go hard. Sparring is a privilege in our training center. You earn the privilege and must maintain it.
Does it happen? Only every now and then but we deal with it immediately. Even with our fighters, when outside fighters come in for sparring we use the same rule. If you are here to prove yourself, we won't put up with that attitude.
When sparring full contact we usually go at no more than 75-80%. 100% power is done on the heavy bags, 100% speed on the the speed bag and focus mitts not on your training partner. We do spar with full intensity but controlled power and speed.
When I have my students do light sparring I usual instruct no more than 50% power or speed. If anyone goes faster or harder then you will be called down for it. Don't embarrass yourself by being a bad training partner. If you do it twice everyone will get a free punch or kick on you and then you no longer get to spar. You don't want that then don't be a jerk and go hard. Sparring is a privilege in our training center. You earn the privilege and must maintain it.
Does it happen? Only every now and then but we deal with it immediately. Even with our fighters, when outside fighters come in for sparring we use the same rule. If you are here to prove yourself, we won't put up with that attitude.
When sparring full contact we usually go at no more than 75-80%. 100% power is done on the heavy bags, 100% speed on the the speed bag and focus mitts not on your training partner. We do spar with full intensity but controlled power and speed.
Is it possible that this might be a personality clash in your dojo? Jx
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- #12
Honestly they're probably just trying to prove themselves. But I'm dealing a very sore neck today (can't turn it or look up) which could have been prevented.
You could always accidently break his foot with your elbow.
It is important to remember that no one can force you to train with another person. If you have exhausted all avenues of explanation/request then just turn round and inform them and your instructions you will no longer spar with them.
I had something similar when I trained Ju-Jitsu. No matter how many times we asked a certain person (who kept injuring everyone) not to keep using force, and to slow things down so people had time to tap, he wouldn't.
There wasn't any malice, he was just a manual labourer and couldn't get out of the habit of using strength. In the end I felt I was left with no choice, and I refused to train with him anymore.
I had something similar when I trained Ju-Jitsu. No matter how many times we asked a certain person (who kept injuring everyone) not to keep using force, and to slow things down so people had time to tap, he wouldn't.
There wasn't any malice, he was just a manual labourer and couldn't get out of the habit of using strength. In the end I felt I was left with no choice, and I refused to train with him anymore.
and what was their response when you told this to them? Jx
I must agree with much that has been said already. Talk to them and explain what a training exercise should be like (moderate power/ give and take) and remind them that hurting or possibly getting hurt in class is not what people are there for. Also have a talk with the instructor and let them know your going to or have had this talk.
If those things do not work other options need to be considered including using power on them first and staying above their power and speed until they get the idea
If those things do not work other options need to be considered including using power on them first and staying above their power and speed until they get the idea
It depends ...
If their ability and attributes are such that I don't feel confident I can spar with them safely, then I will just pass on doing so. We have a couple of pro MMA fighters in our gym who aren't interested in slowing down to my level, so I don't spar with them. No hard feelings involved, I'm just watching out for my own safety.
If their ability level is such that I can comfortably control them, then I will let them tire themselves out while I protect myself, and then tap them out. Afterwards I will point out how they could have done better and not tired themselves out if they had relaxed and been more methodical. If I think they were playing unsafely, I will advise them to rein it in for the sake of their other sparring partners.
If their ability level is such that I can safely protect myself, but not easily dominate them, I will spar them and set my priorities to a) keep myself safe while maintaining my preferred intensity level and b) studying the puzzle of how to defeat them technically without having to ramp up my speed and power to their level. Given that most of my sparring partners are about half my age, trying to match them force for force is a losing proposition anyway.
If their ability and attributes are such that I don't feel confident I can spar with them safely, then I will just pass on doing so. We have a couple of pro MMA fighters in our gym who aren't interested in slowing down to my level, so I don't spar with them. No hard feelings involved, I'm just watching out for my own safety.
If their ability level is such that I can comfortably control them, then I will let them tire themselves out while I protect myself, and then tap them out. Afterwards I will point out how they could have done better and not tired themselves out if they had relaxed and been more methodical. If I think they were playing unsafely, I will advise them to rein it in for the sake of their other sparring partners.
If their ability level is such that I can safely protect myself, but not easily dominate them, I will spar them and set my priorities to a) keep myself safe while maintaining my preferred intensity level and b) studying the puzzle of how to defeat them technically without having to ramp up my speed and power to their level. Given that most of my sparring partners are about half my age, trying to match them force for force is a losing proposition anyway.
- Thread Starter
- #18
I've been doing that with the girl, I can maneuver around as I'm faster and she leaves spots open and I defitnely make sure I block when I'm with her (she loves the rib shots). First time sparring the guy and of course did regular sparring which is my weakest type of sparring. After the head issue I just focused on leg kicks and keeping him from not getting close enough to take me down. Though since it is my weakest area I need to find a partner that wont murder me while I work on my take downs
As you've probably gathered -- there's no one answer.
Sometimes, people have trouble with control. This may come as they integrate better skill, but can't moderate what they're doing. It may come from just plain strength that they can't control, though they try. It may come from ego (either too much confidence, or too little). Each has to be dealt with differently, and appropriately. Some will just have to be consistently reminded, maybe almost every exchange. You might need to bring some of them into line more forcefully... But the common theme here is that it's likely to be a phase, and they are (in their own way) trying to do the right thing, and you can bring them around with some care and correction.
A bigger problem is the person who won't control themselves. They don't care, and you won't make them care. Some are bullies. Some simply are somewhere far enough along the sociopathic personality line to not care, or even enjoy hurting other people, and they think that a martial arts class is a great outlet for that desire.* There's no real solution for these folks. At best, you can beat them into line, until they think they can get away with it. Stay away from them, and when they find there's nobody who'll work with them, they'll either move on or come in line.
*Guys like Tony mentioned, who are serious competitors, are a different issue on the "won't lighten up" group. But I disagree that it's not a problem that they won't come down to his level. No, they can't do it all the time or exclusively... and close to a fight, they certainly don't want to back off too much. But ordinarily -- would they say they can't play around with their kid/nephew, teach newer students without hurting them? Just a point to ponder...
Sometimes, people have trouble with control. This may come as they integrate better skill, but can't moderate what they're doing. It may come from just plain strength that they can't control, though they try. It may come from ego (either too much confidence, or too little). Each has to be dealt with differently, and appropriately. Some will just have to be consistently reminded, maybe almost every exchange. You might need to bring some of them into line more forcefully... But the common theme here is that it's likely to be a phase, and they are (in their own way) trying to do the right thing, and you can bring them around with some care and correction.
A bigger problem is the person who won't control themselves. They don't care, and you won't make them care. Some are bullies. Some simply are somewhere far enough along the sociopathic personality line to not care, or even enjoy hurting other people, and they think that a martial arts class is a great outlet for that desire.* There's no real solution for these folks. At best, you can beat them into line, until they think they can get away with it. Stay away from them, and when they find there's nobody who'll work with them, they'll either move on or come in line.
*Guys like Tony mentioned, who are serious competitors, are a different issue on the "won't lighten up" group. But I disagree that it's not a problem that they won't come down to his level. No, they can't do it all the time or exclusively... and close to a fight, they certainly don't want to back off too much. But ordinarily -- would they say they can't play around with their kid/nephew, teach newer students without hurting them? Just a point to ponder...
The guys I'm talking about aren't instructors. All of the instructors are willing and able to dial it down. Many of the fighters are as well. There are just a few who aren't interested in taking it easy.
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