How much Sparring?

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I was messing around with a huge wrestler before I began any grappling. all I had was Aikijutsu and TKD. I started to hit him and he threw me to the ground. once on the ground, I tried to strike him, and he pinned my hands to the ground, raised up, and flattened my legs out. (in Saturday night ride for freestyler's out there). He could have headbutted me, bit me, or pulled one arm up, and because of the reach advantage, struck me. all I could have done was spit on him. Now, after grappling, he tries the same technique, and I have no trouble getting out of it. this was in a backyard, and not a pre-set sparring incident. it just happened. he got kinda mad, and threw me down w/o warning.

Well, in that case, since TKD involves sparring, we can pretty much discard it as a method of proving what works, no?

 

[ninhito]

hey guys if you want to be a top notch fighter , considering that one martial art can be beaten by another or by a quick adapting opponent, then wouldnt you learn karate, which focuses more on the hands although there isnt any weapons, and teakwondo, which focuses on the feet or kicking and incorperates weapones.

 

[Blind]

**ky, more or less everytime or almost everytime the subject of Hatsumi sensei not having fighting experience comes up the cop out goes to "why not go and tell or This guy does or goto Japan and show them, etc..
This is really not important or the subject on this thread.
And what difference does it make if Hatsumi sensei has fighting experience or not... You don't have to being the soke or what ever.. you are just a holder of scrolls NOT a fighter.
The scrolls don't give you abilities.
It's just information.
And if he introduced me to any system or not still doesn't give him abilities in fighting.****

ralph severe, kamiyama

You may be right that it is a cop out and I agree that being in possession of some paper does not make you a fighter. From what I heard he had had plenty of experience at least sparring wise but I won`t pretend to know if that is true or not. I would point out though that as far as credentials go he seems to be a few points above you, and while it is possible that there are thousands of people too stupid to see your superior method of training for real combat, it does seem that many more are willing to listen to what he has to say about real combat than are willing to listen to you. Considering the quality of a few of them who have been in wars and such, I think it is quite insulting to say he lacks experience...a well mannered person who thought so wouldn`t say these things, at least not on a public forum.

 

[ninhito]

Hey blind do you practise ninjutsu

 

[ninhito]

Hmmmm how come everyone wants proof of credentials? Why does it matter, just askin?

 

[r.severe]

Blind states, "Considering the quality of a few of them who have been in wars and such, I think it is quite insulting to say he lacks experience..."

Being a fighter and a solder are not the same.
A fighter is a person who experienced fighting.
A solder can stand around or get shot at and never see his foe.
He can fly a plane and drop rocks on people and never see his foe.
A solder can sit behind a desk 1’000’s of miles from the battlefield and never see action at all.
Some can also experience battle and still never experience killing or the action of fighting.

I have never said I disrespect him or feel he was not a great teacher.

Ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[ninhito]

WILL SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION? or maybe im asking to many questions. Hmmm food for thought mm mm good.

 

[Kizaru]

hey guys if you want to be a top notch fighter , considering that one martial art can be beaten by another or by a quick adapting opponent, then wouldnt you learn karate, which focuses more on the hands although there isnt any weapons, and teakwondo, which focuses on the feet or kicking and incorperates weapones.

Or how about learn to be a "quick adapting fighter" yourself, rather than learning a little of this and a little of that?

 

[Blind]

I am a student in the Bujikan. I didn`t say credentials were important per say, just that at the end of the day Hatsumi has been a lot more places and seemingly done a lot more things, for Ralph to say he is lacking in anything seems a little rude to me.

Personally I think the main problem is that people(including myself in some cases I guess) tend to place their values as being most important, which is not a bad thing IMO, but in doing that there is a tendency to say others are LACKING or not as good just because they do things differently than you imagine is the correct way.

I didn`t say Ralph, that you said you disrespected Hatsumi or that you said he was a bad teacher, what I said was I find what you wrote to be quite insulting I think was the word used, rude may have been better.

I am not saying Ralph that you are wrong in your approach to the art at all, I just don`t see why you would bother to say a man who was your teacher and whos arts you learned from him is lacking, if you think you have moved on past him fine...is this a publicity thing? Why not just leave it at your old point of view that most bujinkaners have no idea of a real fight because they don`t practise fake ones?

 

[Kizaru]

A fighter is a person who experienced fighting.
A solder can stand around or get shot at and never see his foe.
Ralph severe, kamiyama

With all due respect Mr. Severe,
A soldier can extinguish someone with a knife.
A soldier can extinguish someone with their bare hands.
A soldier can extinguish someone with a shovel.
A soldier can extinguish someone with a bayonet.
A soldier can extinguish someone at close range with a bullet.
A soldier in combat witnesses lives being extinguished all around him.

Is this included in your range of experiences?

What is a "fighter" in a ring or a bar room brawler fighting for? Pride? Money?
Soldiers "fight" for the lives of the men next to them, as well as for their own lives. I believe the "motivation" is different. Some people have experiencd this "motivation" without being exposed to total war, others have. I believe that Hatsumi sensei has quite a few students who have been through this experience, as well as many who can learn from the experience of others.

:asian:

 

[r.severe]

Blind asked, "I am not saying Ralph that you are wrong in your approach to the art at all, I just don`t see why you would bother to say a man who was your teacher and whos arts you learned from him is lacking, if you think you have moved on past him fine...is this a publicity thing? Why not just leave it at your old point of view that most bujinkaners have no idea of a real fight because they don`t practise fake ones?"

First point Hatsumi sensei is still my guide. or teacher as many would call him.
It is incorrect to assume he is not just because I chat about honest points in his martial views of combative methodology.

The forum here as well as all forums I have read place issues in writing on post.. that's all I'm doing.. no "publicity".

Fact being no one knows what a 'real ' fight is until they experience it.

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[ninhito]

Why are you guys argueing over Hatsumi's credentials? I like the way he teaches all though i havent been to anything but i've read somebooks of his and saw what he did in those books.

 

[Cryozombie]

Why are you guys argueing over Hatsumi's credentials? I like the way he teaches all though i havent been to anything but i've read somebooks of his and saw what he did in those books.

Ninhito,

Re-read the post and I think you will find the question is not about Hatsumi's credentials.

 

[ninhito]

Okay i get it. You guys are argueing over his fighting experience. Okay now this question was not answered on the thread so. How come it matters so much?

 

[AaronLucia]

Ninhito, if the art you are taking has no fighting experience, then why are you taking it?

 

[ninhito]

Good piont and Kizaru how come you cant change the flow and if your suppose to be an adapting fighter then how come people who fight BJJ dont learn from there fights? How come they get pinned? Even though the BJJ spar alot will that help you beat them? I know this probably was answered already but why dont you HIGH RANKING (only) spar with each other? Do you always need your sensei there? Why not set some ground rules (or not) and just start fightin? Its how it goes down in the street and then you could add some people. Those people you would know about, because you guys train together or not, but you dont know what there carrien or where there comin from. Just my thoughts. Your right though, why laern a martial art that doesn't work.

 

[ninhito]

Then youd at least see alot of situations.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Seems as though I've hit my head, am I alive, or am I dead?

 

[ninhito]

hmmm
what is the extent of damage done to the brain besides death.

 

[Shogun]

Well, in that case, since TKD involves sparring, we can pretty much discard it as a method of proving what works, no?

I support sparring. I think it should be used. I was just saying, in this particular incident, we werent sparring.