How many people train Modern Arnis as a complete system?
- Thread starter Datu Tim Hartman
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Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Pauuuuuullllllll,
Here is the right place to mention something and perhaps set up another thread. I have a copy of a 1975 film of RP doing "pink book" material. His body actions bear characteristics similar to Ernesto's. He certainly was using more body shifting when I met him in 1980 than what he did on the film. Datu Dieter's body movement resembles GM Ernesto. That should be expected as GM Ernesto was one of his early influences. Dieter also trained off and on in the PI. This is where most of us Americans are in the dark. What are the differences between MA USA and MA PI?
So, here's a possible new thread question - how much did RP change his own movement after leaving the PI? I have noticed GM Ernesto doesn't use as much body shifting as his brother. Now this is based on demonstrations I have seen and watching his students. Was that how RP taught in the PI?
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Here is the right place to mention something and perhaps set up another thread. I have a copy of a 1975 film of RP doing "pink book" material. His body actions bear characteristics similar to Ernesto's. He certainly was using more body shifting when I met him in 1980 than what he did on the film. Datu Dieter's body movement resembles GM Ernesto. That should be expected as GM Ernesto was one of his early influences. Dieter also trained off and on in the PI. This is where most of us Americans are in the dark. What are the differences between MA USA and MA PI?
So, here's a possible new thread question - how much did RP change his own movement after leaving the PI? I have noticed GM Ernesto doesn't use as much body shifting as his brother. Now this is based on demonstrations I have seen and watching his students. Was that how RP taught in the PI?
Yours,
Dan Anderson
OK, just a quick answer:
from what I have learned from Ernesto, Rodel, Bambit and Roland, the style of Ernesto in the 80' was much closer to Remy's Modern Arnis of the 70s as his style in the 90s.
This ment, that there was a clear distincion between modern and classical techniques, modern meaning stick techniques (grabbing the stick) and straight forward moving into the attacking action of the opponent, classical meaning blade techniques, and evading to the side.
We do both.
Regards
Dieter KnĆ¼ttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
from what I have learned from Ernesto, Rodel, Bambit and Roland, the style of Ernesto in the 80' was much closer to Remy's Modern Arnis of the 70s as his style in the 90s.
This ment, that there was a clear distincion between modern and classical techniques, modern meaning stick techniques (grabbing the stick) and straight forward moving into the attacking action of the opponent, classical meaning blade techniques, and evading to the side.
We do both.
Regards
Dieter KnĆ¼ttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
Cruentus
Grandmaster
lol
Don't pay any attention to me...I am just messing around.
Yes, perhaps that'd make a good new thread. I know that just from my training there was a big difference from how Remy moved in the early 90's from the later 90's due to artheritis. I am sure he moved more dynamically the further back in the years you go. I also find it amazing that even in his later years, his skill was able to make up for any lack of physical attributes.
:supcool:
Don't pay any attention to me...I am just messing around.
Yes, perhaps that'd make a good new thread. I know that just from my training there was a big difference from how Remy moved in the early 90's from the later 90's due to artheritis. I am sure he moved more dynamically the further back in the years you go. I also find it amazing that even in his later years, his skill was able to make up for any lack of physical attributes.
:supcool:
Dieter said:
Thanks for the info Dieter.
One other question, or maybe Dan can answer this. In his older books (the Pink one and the Practical Art of Eskrima), Remy appears to do alot of turning on the balls of his feet or maybe on the heels. Thus turning his body in between (possibly) the block and the strike. Like he would block a strike and then pivot to add power to the strike. In the 80's tapes and seeing him in the 90's I don't remember seeing this type of body movement. Was this exagerated for the photos or did he do this type of movements in real life?
I ask this because when studying karate/TKD in the past we pivoted on our balls of our feet for some of the stances and in kobudo we pivoted on our heels when changing directions. I remember seeing this in some of the older karate texts as well. However in all of the other FMA styles/books/VTs etc. etc. I didn't ever really notice this type of movement persay. In the older books the stances looked much more karateish (new word), than what I've seen since.
Did you guys notice this with the Professor, or with his other older students from the Philippines?
Hey if you decide to create the thread that Dan suggested maybe this should be moved there.
Mark
N
Northern
Guest
For the record, when Professor showed something in private, and/or one on one in the nineties he had shifting and proper mechanics... He didn't emphasize it in the main group setting because he was trying to get across a certain amount of material. (at least that is what I always figured) I have asked him about shifting and the like when I was trying to clarify techniques and he always showed superior mechanics. And his sensitivity from slow to fast and hard to soft was amazing. *just my two cents.
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Hi Mark,The Boar Man said:
Remy would use rotation like someone who had done it for years - very economical movement. A trained eye could see the body dynamics. The untrained eye saw him use arm movement. His body shifting that I refer to was more of the defensive movement you'd find in his 6-count or flow drills.
Dieter makes an interesting historical point that
This makes sense when you look at the "pink book" and his "eskrima" book as opposed to his book published by Ohara.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Yours,
Dan
Dan
Thanks for the feedback. In your book on MA you demonstrated body shifting and I thought it was in relation to the defensive movements. However seeing especially the "Practical..Eskrima" book I noticed the larger movements and the pivoting motion on either the balls of the feet or the heels. While I agree that Remy moved with proper body mechanics and rotation with very little movement, I was wondering how he taught the techniques back in the Philippines (or the early days here in the states) with either the larger motions or the smaller motion.
I mentioned before when I attended the MARPPIO seminar that Andrew hosted that Dr. Matias and Dr. Remy Jr. moved differently than what I've wittnessed here in the states with Remy's later students. Even Dieter moves differently more like those trained in the Philippines.
Something was mentioned to me at dinner about learning a pure system (I've had serveral influences in the FMA including Remy and Ernesto, so I haven't learned a pure system). Some people I think like you have learned a pretty pure system of only MA from Remy himself. Dr. Remy Jr. and Dr. Matias only have studied from Remy and his direct students from the Philippines. So I'm asking about the movements to see how he might have taught long before I started with him. Just curious.
Thanks
Mark
Thanks for the feedback. In your book on MA you demonstrated body shifting and I thought it was in relation to the defensive movements. However seeing especially the "Practical..Eskrima" book I noticed the larger movements and the pivoting motion on either the balls of the feet or the heels. While I agree that Remy moved with proper body mechanics and rotation with very little movement, I was wondering how he taught the techniques back in the Philippines (or the early days here in the states) with either the larger motions or the smaller motion.
I mentioned before when I attended the MARPPIO seminar that Andrew hosted that Dr. Matias and Dr. Remy Jr. moved differently than what I've wittnessed here in the states with Remy's later students. Even Dieter moves differently more like those trained in the Philippines.
Something was mentioned to me at dinner about learning a pure system (I've had serveral influences in the FMA including Remy and Ernesto, so I haven't learned a pure system). Some people I think like you have learned a pretty pure system of only MA from Remy himself. Dr. Remy Jr. and Dr. Matias only have studied from Remy and his direct students from the Philippines. So I'm asking about the movements to see how he might have taught long before I started with him. Just curious.
Thanks
Mark
