How many forms . . .

[ajs1976]

How many forms are in your style of TKD? When are they taught?

From what I have picked up, WTF has:

2 Kibbon (basic)
8 Taeguk
8 Palgye
9 black belt

My master teaches the first kibbon at 10th kup and the second at 9th kup. The Taeguks are 1st at 8th kup, 2nd at 7th kup, etc. I think the Palgyes are introduced at 1st kup, but I'm not sure. The black belt forms start at 1st Dan with Koryo.

(I'm not interested in why any type of TKD is better or worse, then any others. I'm just trying to learn about the differences.)

 

[jfarnsworth]

Boy, I don't remember the exact numbers of which belt goes with how many forms :idunno: . It's been too long. We only had up through form 12 Ge-Baek. I remember finishing Po-Eun and working on Ge-Baek when I left.

 

[ajs1976]

Jason,

What style of TKD do you train in?

 

[jfarnsworth]

It was in the ITF. My instructor and his instructor had a falling out sometime in '90. After that we had no association affiliate. He became an independent so our testing requirements changed slightly after that happened. I left the TKD system in May of '94 to join Kenpo in june of '94.

 

[TigerWoman]

At 1st Gup - Key Bon Hyung
2nd-9th Gup - Taeguek 1-8
10th/Recommended Black Belt - Koryo
1st Black Belt - ITF forms Chonji - Kwang Gye (1st Black Belt form) -10 forms
2nd BB - Kumgang, ITF Po-Eun
3rd BB - Taebek, ITF Ge-Baek
It progresses from there.

We are WTF style. TW

 

[bignick]

We do Kibon Hyung at white belt and afterwards we work the Palgwe forms. After black belt my school teaches the Koryo-Kumgang-Taebaek- and so on...

 

[ajs1976]

Tigerwoman,

I'm guessing that when I say 'kibbon' and you say 'Key Bon' we are talking about the same thing. I think it is interesting how there are so many different English spellings for the Korean pronounciations.

I'm curious about two things.

If you are WTF, why are the ITF forms included?

From your post, it looks like at your dojang, a student would start at white belt/1st Gup and work there way to black belt recommended/10th Gup. Do you count up instead of down for the Gup ranks?

thanks

 

[ajs1976]

We do Kibon Hyung at white belt and afterwards we work the Palgwe forms. After black belt my school teaches the Koryo-Kumgang-Taebaek- and so on...

Bignick,

Are the Taeguks taught? If not, do you know why the Palgwe's were picked over the Taeguks.

Thanks,

 

[TigerWoman]

As for the ITF forms, that is the master's choice to teach. Something about that he wanted us well rounded and his master taught him of course. Actually we are better judges at open tournaments because of it. And I like forms. ITF have different techniques and combinations which make it fun.

We don't say gup too much, rather just the belt. I should have gone backwards--it was just me thinking well 1st we do...

As far as the Korean language, I see contradictions in English spelling everywhere and its even worse on pronunciation. I wish there was a confirmed directory of words, just downloaded a bunch on that but don't know how accurate it is. TW

 

[bignick]

the Taeguks are not taught at my school...

the reason, is because we don't do them...that's about the best explanation I can give...our school was founded before the creation of the taeguks and we never made the switch

 

[MichiganTKD]

We do Kibon Il Chang for our white belt form (9th gup), Palgue 1-8 from yellow through red, then Koryo, Kumgang etc. for black belt forms.
We don't do the Taegeuks for a couple of reasons. First, the Palgue forms are what our Grandmaster practiced in Korea. Second, I honestly don't think he is/was impressed with the Taegeuks that much. The Palgue forms emphasize more waist action, deeper stances, and powerful technique. I don't think he felt the Taegeuks did that as much.

I also think it is strange to be practicing ITF forms while calling yourself a WTF school. I don't believe it makes you more well rounded. The ITF forms teach you to move and execute techniques a certain way, different from WTF forms. You should do WTF forms OR ITF forms. Not both.
The Tae Kwon Do Instructor near my school does this. Believe me, it does not bring his students' technique up.

 

[bignick]

hmmm...

I agree with Michigan here. Knowing more forms isn't necessarily going to improve your techniques or your knowledge. Practicing and coming as close to perfection as you can on the forms you do know is what will engender better technique.

Not to say that any set of forms are better, almost all forms practiced in taekwondo are a fairly recent development, with the exception of the schools that still teach the traditional karate kata. But the more you add the less time you have to work on each individual form.

 

[Mithios]

Michigan TKD, Actually the I.T.F. also forms emphasize more, waist action, deeper stances, and more powerfull techniques! with more emphasis on thrust techniques and not snap. Or at least the original way they are suppose to be done. If you are talking about the way the I.T.F. is doing them now, with the up and down sine wave movement. Then i would have to agree Mithios

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

Boy, I don't remember the exact numbers of which belt goes with how many forms :idunno: . It's been too long. We only had up through form 12 Ge-Baek. I remember finishing Po-Eun and working on Ge-Baek when I left.

For shame. Get back to working at it bub, no excuses!:whip:

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

I know, and practice 17 of the 24 required in the ITF system.:asian:

 

[terryl965]

We do Kibon Il Chang for our white belt form (9th gup), Palgue 1-8 from yellow through red, then Koryo, Kumgang etc. for black belt forms.
We don't do the Taegeuks for a couple of reasons. First, the Palgue forms are what our Grandmaster practiced in Korea. Second, I honestly don't think he is/was impressed with the Taegeuks that much. The Palgue forms emphasize more waist action, deeper stances, and powerful technique. I don't think he felt the Taegeuks did that as much.

I also think it is strange to be practicing ITF forms while calling yourself a WTF school. I don't believe it makes you more well rounded. The ITF forms teach you to move and execute techniques a certain way, different from WTF forms. You should do WTF forms OR ITF forms. Not both.
The Tae Kwon Do Instructor near my school does this. Believe me, it does not bring his students' technique up.

Michigan TKD we practice both ITF and WTF also along with the Dai from Okinawa Karate, we do them for tournament reason if you ever go to open or tournament that has no prefence on which forms the ITF or Dai score higher than the Tae Gueks and that is a fact for so many Ref. nowaday gets blinders on seeing the same form over and over again. The fresh of clean air with the change the ref. are happy to see at opens. Just my humble opion and I know for a fact it is true also doing the other forms do help with techniques, it open one mind to new stances and movement!:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

For shame. Get back to working at it bub, no excuses!:whip:

Yeah, I know. If I wanted to test for 3rd I think I'd have to learn the first 14 forms? Maybe first 13. I can't remember exactly. I'm not sure if I really want to do that or not. My instructor has asked me before to take my 3rd degree test but I told him I wasn't interested. Besides not being in the school on a regular basis he wanted me to test a couple of his students for 2nd. Since I'm at 2nd I can't really do that. They also are weaker than I am due to maturity, and time in the arts. I think he wanted to give me a promotion just so he can slide them one degree under me to say, Hey there's a difference between these students and not sit at the same rank. Unfortunately I'm not nor will I ever be in the good 'ole boys club. The only way I will move up is if I test for it. I will never be given anything. Period!

 

[TigerWoman]

hmmm...

I agree with Michigan here. Knowing more forms isn't necessarily going to improve your techniques or your knowledge. Practicing and coming as close to perfection as you can on the forms you do know is what will engender better technique.

Not to say that any set of forms are better, almost all forms practiced in taekwondo are a fairly recent development, with the exception of the schools that still teach the traditional karate kata. But the more you add the less time you have to work on each individual form.

Actually I think it has improved my overall form. Not to mention practicing twenty forms constantly is at least a 30 minute workout and probably more. I learned long and deep stances, forward, back stances, step into double sidekick from the Taegueks. But alot is simplified with the Taegueks. In the ITF forms, there is more twisting like in Toi Gye or in Chung Mu-the round kick/turn 180° then back kick into backstance then round kick into backstance again with overhead blocks. Also there are harder chambered sidekicks, more diagonal moves, backstance/ jump 360° to backstance, and also a flying sidekick-twisting jumps. I have gained a deeper understanding for the forms when you do the same techniques different ways. I like Kwang Gye black belt 1st form over Koryo too because I can get more power into it and the sidekicks are more difficult. (Also, I win with it at tournaments.) TW

 

[Miles]

I teach the 5 Chung Do Kwan kibons created by GM PARK, Hae Man-these are very short and perfect for white belts.

At 8th guep the Taegueks are introduced and are required for advancement.

Black belts learn the Kukkiwon yudanja poomsae-Koryo, Keumgang, Taebaek, etc. Again, only 1 is required for the rank though all prior poomsae may be (and are performed for advancement.

Miles

 

[rainbows]

In my club, we do the ITF patterns.
9th gup - Saja Jiruki/Saja Makgi
8th gup - Chon Ji
7th gup - Dan Gun
6th gup - Do San
5th gup - Won Hyo
4th gup - Yul Gok
3rd gup - Joong Gun
2nd gup - Toi Gye
1st gup - Hwa Rang
1st dan - Choong Moo
and so on and so forth.
I've never done any of the other TKD patterns (taegeuks/palgwe), but I really like the ITF patterns. In competitions I do Toi Gye, I'm not a big fan of Hwa Rang for tournaments. I'll be doing Choong Moo as soon as I learn it (only passed black tag yesterday )