How long into your training before you learnt Chi Sao?

[jg_wc]

Roughly how long into your training did your Sifu teach you Chi Sao?
Over here in the UK it's strange some schools won't let you chi sao for months/years while others start on it pretty early.

 

[wingchun100]

We start learning dan chi sao after Sil Lum Tao, and move on to double-handed after Chum Kiu.

 

[jg_wc]

We start learning dan chi sao after Sil Lum Tao, and move on to double-handed after Chum Kiu.

Roughly how many months into your training?

 

[Marnetmar]

We learned CS and SLT at roughly the same time about two or three months in after we had all of the basic techniques/feeding down.

 

[wingchun100]

Roughly how many months into your training?

Man, that was back in 1995 LOL. Now that I think about it, I may be getting my history mixed up. Sifu has changed his teaching habits over the years, so it gets jumbled up in my mind sometimes. After giving it more thought, I think we may have started bong sao-lop sao during our Sil Lum Tao training, and then didn't get into any chi sao until we started on Chum Kiu. (I say "we" because I started at the same time as several other students, and we all seemed to progress at the same rate. I can still remember the night that I went to class and Sifu ran ALL of us through Chum Kiu for our first time together.)

In any event, I'd say it was anywhere from 4-6 months in...maybe slightly longer.

 

[almost a ghost]

Roughly how long into your training did your Sifu teach you Chi Sao?
Over here in the UK it's strange some schools won't let you chi sao for months/years while others start on it pretty early.

I'm going to assume by chi-sao you mean two arm chi-sao and not don-chi-sao (one arm)

In my first school/org it was literally at least a year before you got into poon-sao (aka beginner chi-sao), after chum kiu. They were trying to over organize the syllabus so they could market the system and open up schools, so they had a bunch of different levels and other crap to get through first.

When I switched instructors it started right after chum-kiu like the previous school I was with, but that would be probably be six months in, and you could add/subtract a month depending on the student.

 

[jg_wc]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know in the uk I know of certain schools such as kamon and ukwckfa who don't do chi sao for a long while. Others do it within a couple months

what are you guys bong lap drill like? I've seen variations of it across different schools. The one we do is one laps and punches the other who goes into bong and guard WHILE TURNING. They then do a lap and punch etc.

 

[mook jong man]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know in the uk I know of certain schools such as kamon and ukwckfa who don't do chi sao for a long while. Others do it within a couple months

what are you guys bong lap drill like? I've seen variations of it across different schools. The one we do is one laps and punches the other who goes into bong and guard WHILE TURNING. They then do a lap and punch etc.

I started to learn single sticking hands after about three months , and started to learn double sticking hands about six or so months after that.

In our version of lap sau we do not pivot , we can if the incoming force is heavy enough though.
Personally I believe pivoting in lap sau to be superfluous , your wu sau and bong sau should be enough to redirect his punch upwards by themselves without having to pivot.

You are already in close contact , he's not charging in from several feet away , so there should not be any need to pivot really.

It's basically pivoting for the sake of pivoting , if you really want to work on your pivoting and test it under heavy force there are better ways in my opinion.

Getting your partner to do a charging punch at you from distance so that he has time to build up momentum will quickly tell you whether you are pivoting properly.

 

[wingchun100]

The only time we pivot during bong sao lop sao is to change sides.

 

[jg_wc]

I started to learn single sticking hands after about three months , and started to learn double sticking hands about six or so months after that.

In our version of lap sau we do not pivot , we can if the incoming force is heavy enough though.
Personally I believe pivoting in lap sau to be superfluous , your wu sau and bong sau should be enough to redirect his punch upwards by themselves without having to pivot.

You are already in close contact , he's not charging in from several feet away , so there should not be any need to pivot really.

It's basically pivoting for the sake of pivoting , if you really want to work on your pivoting and test it under heavy force there are better ways in my opinion.

Getting your partner to do a charging punch at you from distance so that he has time to build up momentum will quickly tell you whether you are pivoting properly.

I guess the reason we pivot in the drill is to make sure when we turn with the bong we turn the correct way. Also during a bong sao you ideally want to pivot otherwise if there's enough force your bong will collapse and you'll get it in the face. I get your point though in the drill and in a lot of situations your bong should be able to take the pressure and you'd only need to turn if the pressure gets too much.

 

[wingchun100]

We start our bong sao lop sao drill in a side stance, then switch to the other side if our partner does a lop sao (which would naturally force us to turn).

 

[jg_wc]

not my Sifu but our drill looks something like this;

Slight turn on the bong sao just to drill into you to turn the correct way when throwing up your bong

 

[mook jong man]

I guess the reason we pivot in the drill is to make sure when we turn with the bong we turn the correct way. Also during a bong sao you ideally want to pivot otherwise if there's enough force your bong will collapse and you'll get it in the face. I get your point though in the drill and in a lot of situations your bong should be able to take the pressure and you'd only need to turn if the pressure gets too much.

A bong sau is not limited to just being used with a pivot , another option is to step forward into the oncoming punch before it has a chance to build up momentum.
Raise your bong sau and wu sau underneath his wrist and redirect his punch upwards then lap sau and chain punch.

The pivot is best used in my opinion when they are charging in and over committing themselves , in that case the pivot with the bong sau can really take them off balance and lead them face first into all sorts of nasty stuff like elbows etc.

All that being said , you should still be trying to hit through , I find the more years you train the less need you seem to have for the bong/lap.
Probably nine times out of ten I'm usually able to wedge a tan sau or biu sau up the inside of their punch and strike through.