How is the stop-format kumite done in training without a referee?

[Acronym]

Folks start out with what I call "light, technical sparring", so there's not much power used in sparring at that point. The ones I'm referring to all came from a classical Karate training (Shotokan or Shorin-ryu for most of them), and had no trouble generating reasonable power at the heavy bag.

What is it that you train that they transitioned to?

 

[Acronym]

Oh, they score. Even it they do not register as points.

I don't know what that means. If it doesn't register as points it isn't worth anything, with the possible exception of a knockout.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't know what that means. If it doesn't register as points it isn't worth anything, with the possible exception of a knockout.

I think he’s referring to the effect on the opponent, who likely puts more attention in guarding that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What is it that you train that they transitioned to?

It’s tough to describe. The base of the curriculum comes from Nihon Goshin Aikido, Including the traditional approach to the core techniques (with some adjustments). But I have a much heavier focus on striking than is typical in NGA, and leverage the Judo roots of the are more than most. There are bits of BJJ, Filipino martial arts, and other stuff present, where my dabblings in other arts influenced my own approach.

 

[Acronym]

It’s tough to describe. The base of the curriculum comes from Nihon Goshin Aikido, Including the traditional approach to the core techniques (with some adjustments). But I have a much heavier focus on striking than is typical in NGA, and leverage the Judo roots of the are more than most. There are bits of BJJ, Filipino martial arts, and other stuff present, where my dabblings in other arts influenced my own approach.

Sounds like Ju jutsu or Taijitsu which mixes joint manipulation with striking.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sounds like Ju jutsu or Taijitsu which mixes joint manipulation with striking.

NGA has influence primarily from Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu (arguably, just the jujutsu, but that’s another discussion), and also from Shotokan, Judo, and some other bits the founder had experience in. Much of my striking would be unfamiliar to others in NGA, as would all of the weapon work.

 

[dvcochran]

I don't know what that means. If it doesn't register as points it isn't worth anything, with the possible exception of a knockout.

So, if someone lands a good kick to your face you do Not notice it because it does not register electronically? Sir, that is very flawed thinking or you have not really been smacked yet.

 

[Acronym]

[

 

[Acronym]

So, if someone lands a good kick to your face you do Not notice it because it does not register electronically? Sir, that is very flawed thinking or you have not really been smacked yet.

It isn't worth anything in the points and they are not running for it anymore.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Our way of thinking....

If you train continuous sparring you still get better at point stop because its easy to stop striking when the judge yells stop.

But you don't get good at continuous sparring by predominately training point stop.

I believe training in continuous sparring is one of the reasons my son has been successful at competition. I think it just makes you a better fighter and competitor.

In training he is focusing on improving on all aspects of fighting (the entry, maintaining spacing, attacking with combos , and the exit).

While continuous sparring has some benefits (endurance and toughness), it also IMO has its drawbacks. From what I've seen, it tends to get sloppy as pure aggressiveness and quantity of strikes takes over from good, clean technique and well executed 2-3 move combinations.

Defense seems to be greatly minimized. Even in MMA they don't launch sustained, non-stop attacks. The well-landed strikes are usually the result of clean, planned, 1, 2, or 3 moves at the most, the fighters then disengaging, resetting their defense and position before re-engaging - much like single point sparring in this respect.

Shadow boxing and heavy bag work can reduce weakness one may develop from exclusively single point sparring, but personally, I'll put quality and precision of strikes and tactics over quantity.

 

[Acronym]

While continuous sparring has some benefits (endurance and toughness), it also IMO has its drawbacks. From what I've seen, it tends to get sloppy as pure aggressiveness and quantity of strikes takes over from good, clean technique and well executed 2-3 move combinations.

It's an inevitably consequence of extended punch limits.

you try and blitz out two lunging punches and then get out of there, but sometimes you get stuck in a tussle and that's were it's a lot of waving because the fighters are just waiting for the referee to seperate them without getting punched.

If you haven't experienced superman punches before, you're bound to get caught. You'll see a competitor just make a skip up in the air, and you have no idea what he is doing, and he just says hello with a Flying punch right on the nose, and you feel like an idiot to fall for it. Then you learn from that of course and recognize the pattern of movement.

Pettis knocked out Thompson with it in the UFC.

 

[CB Jones]

While continuous sparring has some benefits (endurance and toughness), it also IMO has its drawbacks. From what I've seen, it tends to get sloppy as pure aggressiveness and quantity of strikes takes over from good, clean technique and well executed 2-3 move combinations.

Defense seems to be greatly minimized. Even in MMA they don't launch sustained, non-stop attacks. The well-landed strikes are usually the result of clean, planned, 1, 2, or 3 moves at the most, the fighters then disengaging, resetting their defense and position before re-engaging - much like single point sparring in this respect.

Shadow boxing and heavy bag work can reduce weakness one may develop from exclusively single point sparring, but personally, I'll put quality and precision of strikes and tactics over quantity.

Let me clarify.... With continuous sparring I'm not talking about machine gun striking or brawling.

I'm talking about a 2-3 minute round where you are sparring without stopping and resetting after each clash.

You are moving around the ring sparring like you would in a pro fight. Controlling spacing, mixing it up with singles, counters, and combos, and changing tempo and the pace. Pressing the action when you have the advantage and getting out any disadvantages you get in.

It is still quality .....there is just not a ref stopping the action after each exchange.

 

[dvcochran]

It isn't worth anything in the points and they are not running for it anymore.

Yeah, you have not been smacked yet.

 

[dvcochran]

It's an inevitably consequence of extended punch limits.

you try and blitz out two lunging punches and then get out of there, but sometimes you get stuck in a tussle and that's were it's a lot of waving because the fighters are just waiting for the referee to seperate them without getting punched.

If you haven't experienced superman punches before, you're bound to get caught. You'll see a competitor just make a skip up in the air, and you have no idea what he is doing, and he just says hello with a Flying punch right on the nose, and you feel like an idiot to fall for it. Then you learn from that of course and recognize the pattern of movement.

Pettis knocked out Thompson with it in the UFC.

Clinching is all but banned in WT sparring. Something I sorely miss. There was a lot of good strategy for coming out of a clnich.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I don't know what that means. If it doesn't register as points it isn't worth anything, with the possible exception of a knockout.

I'm not a TKD guy, but I train with one of their top certified referees. It is my understanding that electronic scoring is a big thing now in TKD competition, but does NOT replace human refs. They are still needed to call certain points and help determine if the scoring hit is worth 1, 2, or 3? points. There are still judgment calls to be made in other areas, too.

Being a TMA guy, myself, I have a bias against electronic scoring. Why have umpires in baseball when balls and strikes can be called by a computer? Why not hook everybody up with electronic sensors in all sports and compete in their sport online? Even then, it comes down to people - someone has to change the batteries.

 

[_Simon_]

Which Karate style has non contact sparring?

There are styles out there haha. The one I did was a newer hybrid, very "family friendly" one, apparently contact is increased in higher grades but unsure if that's true

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not a TKD guy, but I train with one of their top certified referees. It is my understanding that electronic scoring is a big thing now in TKD competition, but does NOT replace human refs. They are still needed to call certain points and help determine if the scoring hit is worth 1, 2, or 3? points. There are still judgment calls to be made in other areas, too.

Being a TMA guy, myself, I have a bias against electronic scoring. Why have umpires in baseball when balls and strikes can be called by a computer? Why not hook everybody up with electronic sensors in all sports and compete in their sport online? Even then, it comes down to people - someone has to change the batteries.

It does change the game (whatever game it is). Imagine if a pitcher never had the opportunity to adjust his pitch for the way a given umpire is calling strikes that day. I imagine there’s some of the same in point sparring competition.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There are styles out there haha. The one I did was a newer hybrid, very "family friendly" one, apparently contact is increased in higher grades but unsure if that's true

I’m certain there are schools that go fully non-contact. I’ve seen demos that included none, and the participants “accepted” things that never would have landed, which looks to me like they’ve never done contact sparring. One of my instructors (NGA, not karate) went more and more that way over the years, with a similar result. (Oddly, his primary instructor seemed to go the opposite direction.)

 

[_Simon_]

I’m certain there are schools that go fully non-contact. I’ve seen demos that included none, and the participants “accepted” things that never would have landed, which looks to me like they’ve never done contact sparring. One of my instructors (NGA, not karate) went more and more that way over the years, with a similar result. (Oddly, his primary instructor seemed to go the opposite direction.)

Yeah ah right... I for sure can see the benefits: less injuries from impact, develop control, able to work more on certain things without fear of getting smashed... but while I was okay with it at the time, nowadays I need some contact at least. None doesn't make as much sense to me now when looking pros and cons.

And that being said, any tournament I've entered that has been "noncontact", was absolutely never no contact . Hit in the face and kicked multiple times haha. Especially when you're in one of the young bucks divisions, things get heated and everyone charges at each other! Hehe. Not me though of course!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah ah right... I for sure can see the benefits: less injuries from impact, develop control, able to work more on certain things without fear of getting smashed... but while I was okay with it at the time, nowadays I need some contact at least. None doesn't make as much sense to me now when looking pros and cons.

And that being said, any tournament I've entered that has been "noncontact", was absolutely never no contact . Hit in the face and kicked multiple times haha. Especially when you're in one of the young bucks divisions, things get heated and everyone charges at each other! Hehe. Not me though of course!

There’s definitely room for zero-contact training, but I think in isolation (never including contact) leads inevitably to bad habits, assuming your intent is to learn to hit people.