How did black gi's become standard for kenpo?
- Thread starter JohnPeace
- Start date
Dave Leverich
Black Belt
(Link was above)
In the 80's sometimes we wore black pants with white top simply because it was cool heh. That, and well... chuck did it, must have been that 'omg black Gi Kenpo guys... with beards!' inluence
.
Rich_Hale
Green Belt
My Kenpo training began in 1972 at Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate Studio in Colton, CA under the instruction of Rich Callahan.
Although our school was teaching the 32 technique system of Kenpo, Rich was also a 3rd Black in the International Kajukenbo Association. A rank he received from Al Dacascos and Al Reyes Sr. in 1969. I make this clarification because as stated by Mr. Bishop, the Kajukenbo family have their own reasons and traditions that may have effected or school policy even though we were an Ed Parker owned school.
Our policy was black belts wore black, if they wanted to, as could brown belts. Student instructors could were a combination of black and white and everyone else wore white.
As for tournaments, I have not idea if this was unique to our school or not, but we were allowed to wear black to a tournament if we fought in at least three matches and won at least one of them. Knowing we would otherwise not wear an all black uniform until brown belt this was quite an incentive for us to compete in at lease a few tournaments.
As for why Rich Callahan wore black, I can guarantee you it had nothing to do with tradition, permission or policy and all everything to do with being a rebellious bad ***.
Although our school was teaching the 32 technique system of Kenpo, Rich was also a 3rd Black in the International Kajukenbo Association. A rank he received from Al Dacascos and Al Reyes Sr. in 1969. I make this clarification because as stated by Mr. Bishop, the Kajukenbo family have their own reasons and traditions that may have effected or school policy even though we were an Ed Parker owned school.
Our policy was black belts wore black, if they wanted to, as could brown belts. Student instructors could were a combination of black and white and everyone else wore white.
As for tournaments, I have not idea if this was unique to our school or not, but we were allowed to wear black to a tournament if we fought in at least three matches and won at least one of them. Knowing we would otherwise not wear an all black uniform until brown belt this was quite an incentive for us to compete in at lease a few tournaments.
As for why Rich Callahan wore black, I can guarantee you it had nothing to do with tradition, permission or policy and all everything to do with being a rebellious bad ***.
JTKenpo
Purple Belt
That story ROCKS!!!!! LOL Truely awesome
c2kenpo
White Belt
This what what i was told too. You could work out for a week in yoru black gi w/o having to wash it every night. But then again I dont know how many wives that would tolerate that locker room smell!
Something that was told to me was that there was no history to the black/white debate. Since hundreds of years ago they still did not use dyes in clothing... but that is just a thought.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
....because SGM Ed Parker said so.
That information with regard to dyes is just factually inaccurate. Depending on culture, it would probably be more accurate to say "thousands" of years ago they didn't use dyes in clothing, and that was probably when they were still wearing skins/leathers. Pretty much as soon as textiles are developed someone figures out dyes.
Lamont
Hyper_Shadow
Green Belt
I dunno about for kenpo, but at my dojo we wear black gi's for pretty much the same reason. They don't show up dirt and grime when you grapple, they also are practically impossible to stain.
Really, I have never heard that it was a tradition to wear black gi's. I mean, I do wear a black gi, but I also have white gi's, as well as blue, and red gi's. But the red and blue gi's are for the demo team I am on, out on the mat, I usually wouldn't wear them. You are right though that now many more people wear black gi's, then white gi's, and I can't tell you why this is because I don't know. Maybe it is easier to see lighter colored patches on the black gi, verses the white gi. Sorry I couldn't answer your question
.
OTOH another interpretation of the colors could come from the yin/yang concept. Styles that wear white could be drawing upon the interpretation of yang (white), which is the stronger of the two.
Clearly, whoever decided that AK should wear all black gis did not do so in the vein of the yin/yang interpretation
I would respectfully assert that while yang is considered as active, light, and masculine, among other things, while yin is still, dark and feminine, yang is not necessarily "the stronger of the two." This is why we see the equality of the intertwining of the two in the symbol, with a part of each within the other. If yang were actually stronger, this duality wouldn't make sense. Granted, it has been a long time since I studied eastern religion and philosophy in college, and my memory is subject to being fallible, but I have tried to keep up on such things.
Hell, if thats the case I'd hate to see them in white.
Hello. Sorry to revive on old thread, however i found this thread while searching on "kenpo group that wears black top gi white bottoms", because i had some wacky dream last night where i was training with a group of people who dressed in that way....
But I digress.
I am not a high ranking Kenpo-ist, however, i did train for several years during the early / mid / late 80s, and on and off in the 90s.
I am a student of many Kenpo instructors, many of them who were 1st generation GM Parker Snr students.
During the 80s, I went to numerous seminars that featured (starred) GM Parker Snr, and many of his top students from the US and Europe.
When I first started, at the age of 11, I was a kid, and I wore an all black gi, as all of us did.
A few years later, the instructors (i.e. the dan grades, and the assistant instructors, i.e brown belt 1-3)
were told to that they now were the only people who wore black suits, and this was so as to differentiate the difference between student grade and instructor.grade.
The story as to why kenpo-ists previously wore black gi's also came out and was greatly due to inter style relations. Basically speaking, Kenpo guys wore black gi's, because Kenpo was not a pure Japanese style, and GM Parker, as well as a number of other Kenpo'ists, had fallen out with some of the Japanese stylists.
As legend has it, during the development of early karate competition (during the 50s and 60s)
Early Karate sparring (otherwise known as Kumite) started off as being highly controlled and light, semi or even non contact.
During the 60s/70s and 80s, some of the stylists however, wanted to train with more contact. During part of this era, it wasn't that uncommon to find in some parts bare knuckle kenpo'ist, who fought semi - full contact.
Some of these kenpo'ist entered some of open Japanese Karate tournaments, and some individuals were known to get disqualified due to their use of excessive force, such as knocking out their opponents with a KO.
(with the kenpo'ist attitude towards such losses being "what do you mean i lost, i knocked the other guy out!!"
In some Japanese Karate circles, this was thrown upon.
Also. GM Parker, although haven been taught by several martial artists from various traditions,
developed kenpo as something that is different to pure traditional Okinawan/Japanese Karate.
GM Parker's system was less of a traditional system but GM Parkers own individual system of self defence / street fighting that was developed to prepare his students to deal with modern types of criminal attackers, rather than an art that was developed to defend against types of attackers that no longer existed.
I remember GM Parker labelling his Kenpo-ist, all dressed in black Gi's, as the black sheep of karate.
I also remember GM Parker also fell out at another event, where some of his students entered a kata competition, but which was not well received by the Japanese Judges.
I guess, in those days, the differences between styles was so vast, that neither side could really appreciate the others perspective.
So.. another reason why GM Parker wanted to distinguish himself and his people as different to that of the main stream Japanese / Okinawan style of karate.
Interestingly enough, I have also studied Judo. Which you may know also has its own conflict between two main type of camps within the Judo fraternity.
In the beginning, you have the Kodokan Students, who traditionally wore White Gi's / suits.
All students / all instructors wore white Gi's, with any other colour being forbidden.
This rule was really to push the Japanese Cultural ideals, where students are considered equal
and part of the greater whole.
Later on, when Judo became an international sport and an olympic sport, with many of the competitions
being publicised on colour TV!!! The Olympic committee decided to introduce Blue suits
so as to help the viewers distinguish between the players.
(as with Karate, the winning techniques in Judo fights can happen in literally a split second, and if your not watching carefully, you may miss everything and not have a clue what happened).
So. the original reason why Judo sportsmen deviated away from the original Kodokan rule of only white suits, was purely for spectators.
Ironically, in some clubs (including the ones I have trained) you get groups of people who
use their colour in the same way as criminal gangs use their colours, to set themselves apart,
to intimidate and to create a prejudice against those who wear the other colours.
Exactly the type of mentality that the founder of Judo was trying to combat.
But I guess that is one of the problems that arises when certain types of men get control of something.
As for Kenpo. I personally have no problem with what ever colour a person wears. Its not the suit that does the fighting.
Ideally, however, i would say that I personally think that a "street fighting" system that is trying to update karate so that it can be used against modern attackers, then i think that its better to dress in clothes that you were normally, as that would give you real life experience of what limitations and advantages there are by wearing the clothes you do.
Lastly
one fact that i discovered when reading one of the old traditional karate books, is that what is known to us as the modern karate gi, was originally nothing but traditional Japanese Dress undergarments, which Okinawan's stripped down to, in order to train.
So... in context, and looking back, i thought it extremely funny to think that we Kenpo'ists had spent years walking around as if we were super tough 'cause we were wearing Japanese undergarments...
That, I personally think is hilarious.
Perhaps we should consider changing our uniform style?... perhaps to the same as worn by the Sumo's...? lol
(no offence to Sumo's, but you gotta admit, from a western perspective, if you saw a room full of daft westerners practising karate in funny undies, it would look funny!!!).
Otherwise, what ever gi you were. Good luck to you. Stay healthy! stay positive!
But I digress.
I am not a high ranking Kenpo-ist, however, i did train for several years during the early / mid / late 80s, and on and off in the 90s.
I am a student of many Kenpo instructors, many of them who were 1st generation GM Parker Snr students.
During the 80s, I went to numerous seminars that featured (starred) GM Parker Snr, and many of his top students from the US and Europe.
When I first started, at the age of 11, I was a kid, and I wore an all black gi, as all of us did.
A few years later, the instructors (i.e. the dan grades, and the assistant instructors, i.e brown belt 1-3)
were told to that they now were the only people who wore black suits, and this was so as to differentiate the difference between student grade and instructor.grade.
The story as to why kenpo-ists previously wore black gi's also came out and was greatly due to inter style relations. Basically speaking, Kenpo guys wore black gi's, because Kenpo was not a pure Japanese style, and GM Parker, as well as a number of other Kenpo'ists, had fallen out with some of the Japanese stylists.
As legend has it, during the development of early karate competition (during the 50s and 60s)
Early Karate sparring (otherwise known as Kumite) started off as being highly controlled and light, semi or even non contact.
During the 60s/70s and 80s, some of the stylists however, wanted to train with more contact. During part of this era, it wasn't that uncommon to find in some parts bare knuckle kenpo'ist, who fought semi - full contact.
Some of these kenpo'ist entered some of open Japanese Karate tournaments, and some individuals were known to get disqualified due to their use of excessive force, such as knocking out their opponents with a KO.
(with the kenpo'ist attitude towards such losses being "what do you mean i lost, i knocked the other guy out!!"
In some Japanese Karate circles, this was thrown upon.
Also. GM Parker, although haven been taught by several martial artists from various traditions,
developed kenpo as something that is different to pure traditional Okinawan/Japanese Karate.
GM Parker's system was less of a traditional system but GM Parkers own individual system of self defence / street fighting that was developed to prepare his students to deal with modern types of criminal attackers, rather than an art that was developed to defend against types of attackers that no longer existed.
I remember GM Parker labelling his Kenpo-ist, all dressed in black Gi's, as the black sheep of karate.
I also remember GM Parker also fell out at another event, where some of his students entered a kata competition, but which was not well received by the Japanese Judges.
I guess, in those days, the differences between styles was so vast, that neither side could really appreciate the others perspective.
So.. another reason why GM Parker wanted to distinguish himself and his people as different to that of the main stream Japanese / Okinawan style of karate.
Interestingly enough, I have also studied Judo. Which you may know also has its own conflict between two main type of camps within the Judo fraternity.
In the beginning, you have the Kodokan Students, who traditionally wore White Gi's / suits.
All students / all instructors wore white Gi's, with any other colour being forbidden.
This rule was really to push the Japanese Cultural ideals, where students are considered equal
and part of the greater whole.
Later on, when Judo became an international sport and an olympic sport, with many of the competitions
being publicised on colour TV!!! The Olympic committee decided to introduce Blue suits
so as to help the viewers distinguish between the players.
(as with Karate, the winning techniques in Judo fights can happen in literally a split second, and if your not watching carefully, you may miss everything and not have a clue what happened).
So. the original reason why Judo sportsmen deviated away from the original Kodokan rule of only white suits, was purely for spectators.
Ironically, in some clubs (including the ones I have trained) you get groups of people who
use their colour in the same way as criminal gangs use their colours, to set themselves apart,
to intimidate and to create a prejudice against those who wear the other colours.
Exactly the type of mentality that the founder of Judo was trying to combat.
But I guess that is one of the problems that arises when certain types of men get control of something.
As for Kenpo. I personally have no problem with what ever colour a person wears. Its not the suit that does the fighting.
Ideally, however, i would say that I personally think that a "street fighting" system that is trying to update karate so that it can be used against modern attackers, then i think that its better to dress in clothes that you were normally, as that would give you real life experience of what limitations and advantages there are by wearing the clothes you do.
Lastly
one fact that i discovered when reading one of the old traditional karate books, is that what is known to us as the modern karate gi, was originally nothing but traditional Japanese Dress undergarments, which Okinawan's stripped down to, in order to train.
So... in context, and looking back, i thought it extremely funny to think that we Kenpo'ists had spent years walking around as if we were super tough 'cause we were wearing Japanese undergarments...
That, I personally think is hilarious.
Perhaps we should consider changing our uniform style?... perhaps to the same as worn by the Sumo's...? lol
(no offence to Sumo's, but you gotta admit, from a western perspective, if you saw a room full of daft westerners practising karate in funny undies, it would look funny!!!).
Otherwise, what ever gi you were. Good luck to you. Stay healthy! stay positive!
Similar threads
