'Horrific' scene after teen allegedly shoots parents, siblings

[ballen0351]

All true, but advertisers are very very good at this sort of thing. (Say, trying to get other parents to speak up if they see open guns in your house--social pressure.) I agree they wouldn't think about their own kids, but e.g. the OR mall shooter took a gun from a neighbor's house. Highlighting that danger could help--how about a sombre 30-second spot with the guy whose stolen guns were used in that shooting?

Like I said go for it. It may work it may not. I've never been in a house were people just have guns laying around. Well other then dope houses but socially never.

 

[Big Don]

All true, but advertisers are very very good at this sort of thing. (Say, trying to get other parents to speak up if they see open guns in your house--social pressure.) I agree they wouldn't think about their own kids, but e.g. the OR mall shooter took a gun from a neighbor's house. Highlighting that danger could help--how about a sombre 30-second spot with the guy whose stolen guns were used in that shooting?

Really? Because I remember Nancy Reagan's "Just say no" campaign being a punchline for a decade.

 

[arnisador]

Like I said go for it. It may work it may not. I've never been in a house were people just have guns laying around. Well other then dope houses but socially never.

I have--say, my father-in-law's, way out in the country. Also a neighbor of ours.

 

[arnisador]

Really? Because I remember Nancy Reagan's "Just say no" campaign being a punchline for a decade.

Logically, then, advertising is completely ineffective.

 

[DennisBreene]

Its a little more then uncool its enforcement. Your in public when DUI or text while driving and the police can see you and ticket you. I can't look in your house and see if you have gun safe or not


Perhaps like I said I don't care if there is a gun safe law I can tell you I won't follow it. I have some guns in a safe now but not all of them. I have a few out for quick access. No law will make me change that. It is what it is.

I've known LEO's who have been attacked while with family members becaused they were recognized. Clearly your personal circumstance is exceptional and requires exceptional preparedness. Over the long haul, if we reject all possible solutions unless we are sure of 100% (or 80% or 60%) success we won't get anywhere. How about a standard such as a reasonable chance of success at a reasonable cost to society, with a reevaluation later to evaluate effectiveness?

 

[ballen0351]

I've known LEO's who have been attacked while with family members becaused they were recognized. Clearly your personal circumstance is exceptional and requires exceptional preparedness. Over the long haul, if we reject all possible solutions unless we are sure of 100% (or 80% or 60%) success we won't get anywhere. How about a standard such as a reasonable chance of success at a reasonable cost to society, with a reevaluation later to evaluate effectiveness?

I just think passing unenforceable laws is a waist of paper and time that could be spent working on other solutions. Like I said I wouldn't oppose it but I wouldn't follow it either. But then again I also don't wear seatbelts and I text and drive and speed so I'm not a good roll model

 

[DennisBreene]

Really? Because I remember Nancy Reagan's "Just say no" campaign being a punchline for a decade.

And while adults and teenagers were frequently in mind of the slogan while ridiculing it, were the children who were targeted by the campaign, internalizing the message? Again, multiple attempts on multiple fronts in an effort to change behavior. As statistics demonstrate a continuously dropping incidence of gun violence, something has to have been working to achieve this. What data do we have that helps explain the causes of these statistics?

 

[DennisBreene]

I just think passing unenforceable laws is a waist of paper and time that could be spent working on other solutions. Like I said I wouldn't oppose it but I wouldn't follow it either. But then again I also don't wear seatbelts and I text and drive and speed so I'm not a good roll model

Don't sell yourself short. You make an excellent cautionary tale. As to passing unenforceable laws, that's why I expressed a little uncertaintly about gun safe laws. We need an enforcement perspective to understand what might actually work. My perception may be simplistic though. I've viewed laws as tools for enforcement, ie something has to be illegal before there is a rationale for investigating, as well as for capturing the bad guy, ie I saw you rob that store and you're under arrest.

 

[shesulsa]

Like I said go for it. It may work it may not. I've never been in a house were people just have guns laying around. Well other then dope houses but socially never.

I have - often. Lots of folks in the country, some here in the city. One local guy open-carries when he does his grocery shopping at Fred Meyer.

But what some people are advocating without saying it outright (and, to be fair, possibly without realizing it) is making stupidity and laziness illegal.

I keep waiting for someone to suggest intermittent in-home weapons inspections to make sure weapons are stowed properly. Even I am not that liberal.

 

[granfire]

I keep waiting for someone to suggest intermittent in-home weapons inspections to make sure weapons are stowed properly. Even I am not that liberal.

LOL, what does that got to do with liberal? Isn't that the opposite?

And even if somebody were to entertain thought, I am sure the realities would set in soon enough. The logistics would be even more daunting than putting an armed guard in each school, and that is pretty much impossible.

 

[celtic_crippler]

well, most laws are enforced after the fact.
However, how do you punish the parents....

In general:

I think it's an absolutely excellent idea to hold parents accountable for the actions of their kids, BUT FIRST you have to give them back the ability to discipline their children.

If people were held responsible, they might be a little more responsible in having kids (or to anything else they're held responsible for that matter...)

The repercussions of such a policy would have an extreme ripple effect throughout our culture with far-reaching impact upon a great many social issues.

 

[ballen0351]

I have - often. Lots of folks in the country, some here in the city. One local guy open-carries when he does his grocery shopping at Fred Meyer.

But what some people are advocating without saying it outright (and, to be fair, possibly without realizing it) is making stupidity and laziness illegal.

I keep waiting for someone to suggest intermittent in-home weapons inspections to make sure weapons are stowed properly. Even I am not that liberal.

I didnt mean I dont see guns around. i ment Ive never walked into a house and tripped over a shotgun in the corner or had to move a pistol to reach the salt and pepper on the dinner table. I see guns all the time but not just carelessly thrown about the house.
(As I say that I look over at my gunbelt sitting on the floor of my bedroom with my gun in it.lol)
opps but Im the only one home and I am getting ready to clean it so I took it out of the safe and then decided to get on computer instead.

 

[ballen0351]

Don't sell yourself short. You make an excellent cautionary tale.

everyone needs to do there part

As to passing unenforceable laws, that's why I expressed a little uncertaintly about gun safe laws. We need an enforcement perspective to understand what might actually work. My perception may be simplistic though. I've viewed laws as tools for enforcement, ie something has to be illegal before there is a rationale for investigating, as well as for capturing the bad guy, ie I saw you rob that store and you're under arrest.

thats my point this law would be unenforcable until after the fact which is fine we have laws like that punitave not preventative

 

[shesulsa]

I didnt mean I dont see guns around. i ment Ive never walked into a house and tripped over a shotgun in the corner or had to move a pistol to reach the salt and pepper on the dinner table. I see guns all the time but not just carelessly thrown about the house.
(As I say that I look over at my gunbelt sitting on the floor of my bedroom with my gun in it.lol)
opps but Im the only one home and I am getting ready to clean it so I took it out of the safe and then decided to get on computer instead.

I understand what you meant. My daughter at seven years old came home from a friend's house where a gun laid on top of the clothes dryer. I've been in homes where pistols lay on the table and children were in these homes.

I want to be perfectly clear that I do not in any way advocate nor approve of idiots who are thusly careless.

My point is that there are many people who are and would still be lazy and stupid regardless of any storage laws and that the enforcement of these laws without a completely fascist state would be impossible.

 

[ballen0351]

I understand what you meant. My daughter at seven years old came home from a friend's house where a gun laid on top of the clothes dryer. I've been in homes where pistols lay on the table and children were in these homes.

Thats just idiotic I guess my friend are more responsible I seriously have never seen that in my life

I want to be perfectly clear that I do not in any way advocate nor approve of idiots who are thusly careless.

My point is that there are many people who are and would still be lazy and stupid regardless of any storage laws and that the enforcement of these laws without a completely fascist state would be impossible.

I agree you cant legislate responsibility