Hooking Wings-Bow Of Compulsion Master Key Pattern

[KENPOJOE]

Hi folks!
Recently, I filmed a segment on "master Key Patterns" in relationship to certain techniques. Please watch and give your comments and imput!
Thank you for your time!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
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[Ray]

Thanks for posting that Mr. Rebelo. It's wonderful that you & a few others take the time and care enough about the art to share.

It was also nice to see Mr. Marshall on video. Coincidentally, he stopped by my place on his way home from your area.

 

[ackks10]

good stuff Joe

 

[kenpo3631]

Joe,
Nice video, the quality and sound get better each time you put them up. You have some interesting ideas. Which sparked some questions

The pattrerns you've shown are nothing more than Figure 8's, one on the high line (speed bagging his head), the other on the low line (working the knees). The extension you speak of would be Obscure Wing, where you work the pattern with your footwork.

I don't understand your "category completion" comment in regard to the Fig. 8 patterns though. You said: (timestamp 3:06 to 3:16 of the video)

"So from bottom of fist to back of fist, back of fist to front of fist. Again, another understanding of the category completion and how to work that off the backknuckles"

What category are you completing? Backfist combos? Could you please elaborate?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi folks!
Recently, I filmed a segment on "master Key Patterns" in relationship to certain techniques. Please watch and give your comments and imput!
Thank you for your time!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
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Wow, these tech don't look like the ones I learned under the same name, but thats cool; however, I thought the very word "Bow" from Bow of compuslsion came from him bowing from the dropping elbow that is not shown in the clip on the first move. I enjoyed the clips though...:ultracool
Sean

 

[KENPOJOE]

Joe,
Nice video, the quality and sound get better each time you put them up. You have some interesting ideas. Which sparked some questions

The pattrerns you've shown are nothing more than Figure 8's, one on the high line (speed bagging his head), the other on the low line (working the knees). The extension you speak of would be Obscure Wing, where you work the pattern with your footwork.

I don't understand your "category completion" comment in regard to the Fig. 8 patterns though. You said: (timestamp 3:06 to 3:16 of the video)

"So from bottom of fist to back of fist, back of fist to front of fist. Again, another understanding of the category completion and how to work that off the backknuckles"

What category are you completing? Backfist combos? Could you please elaborate?

Hi folks!
Dear Lance,
Since you took the time to post to the boards I placed the link to and the other main board has long ago gone on to other topics, Let me address your repeat post here where it will get more readers [I think].

As I mention in the clip, the patterns are far more than "Just Figure 8s" There are are study of the master key pattern with consists of a series of master key moves that are sequencial in order and consistant at various point within the interstructure of the techniques of american kenpo.
The " inward/outward/upward/downward" order is consistant throughout the system. the figure 8 in reality is actually another example of "when circular moves end,linear moves begin". By using the "question mark" ? shape as a guideline, we can see it's use via the diagonal actions done in the pattern.
Actually, I was thinking of one of "mace" extentions not obscure wing, which one am I refering to and why?
In regards to your query about the "catagory completion" statement...
In our basics of the American Kenpo system, We have 8 major catagories of basics: Stances,Blocks,Parries,Punches,Strikes,finger techniques & foot manuvers.
When using "Master Key Basics" [whether upper body/lower body or a combination thereof] We are taught to be specif in regards to direction,body position & alignment/method of execution,etc...
for example:
In hooking wings we use a:
Right/Inward/downward/diagonal/raking/hammerfist<Bottom fist> [the raking is accomplished by using the back of our knuckles to compound the hammerfist action] the path of motion is anglar [that is linear on a diagonal [+ {addition} sign as opposede to the X {multiplication sign]
which converts into a circular path to execute a:
Right/outward/downwar/diagonal/back knuckle
note how certain catagories within the interstructure were changed...

Right/Inward/downward/diagonal/raking/hammerfist<Bottom fist>
Right/outward/downward/diagonal/back knuckle
followed by a:
Right/Upward/vertical/Elbow immediatedly followed by:
Right/downward/Vertical/heelpalm-Claw
[NOTE: I am aware that some people will compound a right/downward/vertical/elbow in the path of motion]
master key pattern:inward/outward/upward/downward

now,based on this formula,see what you find in bow of compulsion
NOTE: certain people have stated that I "forgot" the collapsing/flapping vertical elbow strike, I never forgot it, I was simply focusing on the OVERALL pattern taught in the interstructure of the techniques, but by my now mentioning those 2 particular omissions, how do they contribute to the catagory completion concept mentioned in this post?
Lance, by quoting my statement regarding
"So from bottom of fist to back of fist, back of fist to front of fist. Again, another understanding of the category completion and how to work that off the backknuckles"
You actually answered your own question,Do you realize that?
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[kenpo3631]

"Since you took the time to post to the boards I placed the link to and the other main board has long ago gone on to other topics, Let me address your repeat post here where it will get more readers [I think]."

I only posted it now because some emailed me the link but only a few days ago and asked me for my opinion. No need to be seemingly condescending.

"The " inward/outward/upward/downward" order is consistent throughout the system"

Absolutely it is, I agree. It is emphasized from Star Block and throughout the forms.

"As I mention in the clip, the patterns are far more than "Just Figure 8s" There are are study of the master key pattern with consists of a series of master key moves that are sequential in order and consistent at various point within the interstructure of the techniques of American kenpo."

Just re-watched the vid, NOT once did you mention the Figure 8 Pattern. The figure 8 is a pattern all unto itself within the Universal Pattern is it not?

"Actually, I was thinking of one of "mace" extensions not obscure wing, which one am I referring to and why?"

You asked in section 6:01 to 6:18 - "What Orange Belt Extension does that exact same pattern with your feet to a downed opponent?" Repeating Mace calls for (per the Big Red Book) a "right back scoop kick to the inside of opponent's left knee, with the same right kicking foot and execute a right roundhouse kick down and to the right inner knee of opponent" I guess you can call it a figure 8, I just don't see it. the reason you do it is to open him up for the groin stomp.

"

In our basics of the American Kenpo system, We have 8 major categories of basics: Stances,Blocks,Parries,Punches,Strikes,finger techniques & foot maneuvers. When using "Master Key Basics" [whether upper body/lower body or a combination thereof] We are taught to be specific in regards to direction,body position & alignment/method of execution,etc..."

Okay, I agree with you. Basics are taught by side method and angle, I.e. Right inward overhead hammering claw. You still haven't enlightened me on this "category completion" you speak of. You wrote:

"In hooking wings we use a:

Right/Inward/downward/diagonal/raking/hammerfist<Bottom fist> [the raking is accomplished by using the back of our knuckles to compound the hammerfist action] the path of motion is angular [that is linear on a diagonal [+ {addition} sign as opposed to the X {multiplication sign]

which converts into a circular path to execute a:

Right/outward/downward/diagonal/back knuckle

note how certain categories within the interstructure were changed..."

What category did you complete? You reversed the pattern in to out, then out to in. What category is that in? The in to out, out to in category?

Hooking Wings "ideally" utilizes an inward downward diagonal hammerfist to opponent's left jaw hinge, but that's "ideally". You were using the ideal phase to make you point in the video weren't you?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi folks!
Dear Lance,
Since you took the time to post to the boards I placed the link to and the other main board has long ago gone on to other topics, Let me address your repeat post here where it will get more readers [I think].

As I mention in the clip, the patterns are far more than "Just Figure 8s" There are are study of the master key pattern with consists of a series of master key moves that are sequencial in order and consistant at various point within the interstructure of the techniques of american kenpo.
The " inward/outward/upward/downward" order is consistant throughout the system. the figure 8 in reality is actually another example of "when circular moves end,linear moves begin". By using the "question mark" ? shape as a guideline, we can see it's use via the diagonal actions done in the pattern.
Actually, I was thinking of one of "mace" extentions not obscure wing, which one am I refering to and why?
In regards to your query about the "catagory completion" statement...
In our basics of the American Kenpo system, We have 8 major catagories of basics: Stances,Blocks,Parries,Punches,Strikes,finger techniques & foot manuvers.
When using "Master Key Basics" [whether upper body/lower body or a combination thereof] We are taught to be specif in regards to direction,body position & alignment/method of execution,etc...
for example:
In hooking wings we use a:
Right/Inward/downward/diagonal/raking/hammerfist<Bottom fist> [the raking is accomplished by using the back of our knuckles to compound the hammerfist action] the path of motion is anglar [that is linear on a diagonal [+ {addition} sign as opposede to the X {multiplication sign]
which converts into a circular path to execute a:
Right/outward/downwar/diagonal/back knuckle
note how certain catagories within the interstructure were changed...

Right/Inward/downward/diagonal/raking/hammerfist<Bottom fist>
Right/outward/downward/diagonal/back knuckle
followed by a:
Right/Upward/vertical/Elbow immediatedly followed by:
Right/downward/Vertical/heelpalm-Claw
[NOTE: I am aware that some people will compound a right/downward/vertical/elbow in the path of motion]
master key pattern:inward/outward/upward/downward

now,based on this formula,see what you find in bow of compulsion
NOTE: certain people have stated that I "forgot" the collapsing/flapping vertical elbow strike, I never forgot it, I was simply focusing on the OVERALL pattern taught in the interstructure of the techniques, but by my now mentioning those 2 particular omissions, how do they contribute to the catagory completion concept mentioned in this post?
Lance, by quoting my statement regarding
"So from bottom of fist to back of fist, back of fist to front of fist. Again, another understanding of the category completion and how to work that off the backknuckles"
You actually answered your own question,Do you realize that?
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Its just that people see this stuff and accept that tech you demonstrate as that tech. You could mention why you alter it. Just a suggestion.
Sean