youngbraveheart
Green Belt
...Matt, how about a "reliable source?"...:boing1:
honsuki and NCK
- Thread starter marlon
- Start date
...Matt, how about a "reliable source?"...:boing1:
youngbraveheart
Green Belt
I found KENPOJOE's Hansuki video on Youtube:
Last edited by a moderator:
youngbraveheart
Green Belt
I suppose it's too late to edit the DVD...
Last edited by a moderator:
RevIV
Black Belt
Here's what i do know about the DVD - i own it - He says that he is doing the villari variation and interpretations down the line. As far as i know, he has been Shown the Chun version, but was asked not to do it for anyone. He has obliged by that and not put it to DVD. What you saw in his version is the way most people do it in the Villari and down the lineage version. Including myself, of course i would drop it in a second and teach the true version if Master Chun Jr. were to make it a public form. Also I am very excited that there is going to be another Kenpo/Kempo Unity seminar in the new england area in the fall of 08'. Loved the last one cant wait to learn at the next one.
Jesse
JTKenpo
Purple Belt
Looking forward to another Unity Seminar!! Keep us posted.
youngbraveheart
Green Belt
Jesse, I was only referring to GM Chun Sr. getting his due credit for the Hansuki...unlike what I heard mentioned in the video clip...
I enjoy watching Brian do it (Hansuki), but since it's only for selected blackbelts in GSJK, I don't even bother trying to memorize any moves whenever I see it being done...this is the same for the higher advanced forms that Bobby does...if I see an effective move (strike) that can be added into our techniques, then I'll take note...only when my teacher thinks it's time to learn another form is when I pay full attention to that form.
That's great news that this fall will be another Kenpo/Kempo Unity Seminar out in MA (our summer trip to MA last year was our best vacation ever). I was privileged to be apart of the seminar in memory of Great GM Chow in SF last year. I was just happy to be there (working)...
RevIV
Black Belt
youngbraveheart
Green Belt
...around 1:48 of the video (similar to what was posted above)
Sounds like MA on June 1st is the place to be...good luck with the event...can't wait to see pics or videos posted!
Gentle Fist
Master Black Belt
Sorry a little late (4 years!) posting on this but figured I would add what little extra I know... Looking at the versions on the internet of Hansuki/Honsuki, I would say Villari added quite a few moves to the form after learning it from Frank Cerio. I have the version Cerio taught in the early 70's and must say it is very basic compared to the versions posted on youtube and other kenpo websites. I have also noticed that the "newer" versions don't have a lot of emphasis on deep stance work and breathing. The strikes and blocks are pretty close though. I would post a video but I was asked not to by my instructor.
My hansuki = chun/cerio/seavey/me
My hansuki = chun/cerio/seavey/me
punisher73
Senior Master
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
- Messages
- 3,959
- Reaction score
- 1,062
Would your instructor allow some written descriptions of the techniques as to how they vary?
punisher73
Senior Master
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
- Messages
- 3,959
- Reaction score
- 1,062
John James
Yellow Belt
Dear Fellow Martial Artists,
Master Bill Chun, Jr. would like to comment once and for all about his father's form, Hansuki, and the variations and confusion that surround it. Below is his direct response.
Sincerely,
Sensee John James
Master Chun, Jr.
Master Bill Chun, Jr. would like to comment once and for all about his father's form, Hansuki, and the variations and confusion that surround it. Below is his direct response.
Sincerely,
Sensee John James
To whom it may concern:
My name is William Chun, Jr. It has been brought to my attention concerning the original ArtForm of the Hansuki, which was created by William Chun, Sr., whom to many of the East Coast is the Grandmaster of your Branches and is the Roots to William Chow (Great Grandmaster).This is not a subject of who did what. I have seen the disgrace of what is a sacred form that was not even close to the Hansuki form that only three or at most four true Chow/Chun, Sr. studentshad learned. It’s just unfortunate that there are so many in the Kenpo/Kempo system that doesn’t know this fine Art. I remember at one of my seminars, a student asked me, “Master Chun, why is your Kenpo/Kempo different?” I replied back, “It’s the Original Arts Style of theChow/Chun, Sr. roots, so it’s your Arts Style that has become different.” I knew then that I had a hard road and a lot of work ahead of me. So I guess this will be one of my friendship messages concerning the form Hansuki.
What I understand of this form that comes out of the East Coast is that it doesn’t have any meaning or character compared to the Original. This is the only difference. From the original form Hansuki, which was created by Grandmaster Chun, Sr., it’s just unfortunate that others don’t respect a true form of creativity. Others use the excuse by saying, ‘They are doing it out of respect for the Creator.’ This is why they do it. But how can one understand what they don’t feel when they are blinded by their own demons. Diluting is what’s being done to this form. I’m writing this message to all Kenpo/Kempo practitioners, ‘Study your Fist of Law and theChina/Empty Hand’.
I have met and still keep in touch with many of the East Coast students from all parts of the NewEngland area. I’ve taught and seen really good Kenpo/Kempo practitioners, but I understand the dilemma of being between a hard rock and loyalty. When an Artist uses his brush, he knows that adding will keep the similarity to the original vision.
I never use television, books, DVD’s, or tapes for training of one’s Art Style. I understand my duties as a Representative and Successor to the Chow/Chun, Sr’s lineage and roots. The International Self Defense Federation/Association will continue to share and educate the future students of the Art Style of Kenpo/Kempo.
This is not up for discussion. We can talk about it, but would we all really understand it? I learned through my training the hands and feet are not going to be used more than your mind.Which leads to not wasting my energy from, or for one’s point of views of making lies in of one’s own beliefs. When you look at a picture and want to add to this picture, you are not only visualizing, you’re creating from others.
The damage has been done. And for my part, it’s simply correcting who the true creator of the form Hansuki is. And for those who sent their concerns and dismay of what happened to this form, I send my Mahalo (I thank you) for that and want to insure all of you that it’s in good hands.
May all of you be safe and till we get to meet again, god bless and nui loa.
Aloha and Mahalo,
My name is William Chun, Jr. It has been brought to my attention concerning the original ArtForm of the Hansuki, which was created by William Chun, Sr., whom to many of the East Coast is the Grandmaster of your Branches and is the Roots to William Chow (Great Grandmaster).This is not a subject of who did what. I have seen the disgrace of what is a sacred form that was not even close to the Hansuki form that only three or at most four true Chow/Chun, Sr. studentshad learned. It’s just unfortunate that there are so many in the Kenpo/Kempo system that doesn’t know this fine Art. I remember at one of my seminars, a student asked me, “Master Chun, why is your Kenpo/Kempo different?” I replied back, “It’s the Original Arts Style of theChow/Chun, Sr. roots, so it’s your Arts Style that has become different.” I knew then that I had a hard road and a lot of work ahead of me. So I guess this will be one of my friendship messages concerning the form Hansuki.
What I understand of this form that comes out of the East Coast is that it doesn’t have any meaning or character compared to the Original. This is the only difference. From the original form Hansuki, which was created by Grandmaster Chun, Sr., it’s just unfortunate that others don’t respect a true form of creativity. Others use the excuse by saying, ‘They are doing it out of respect for the Creator.’ This is why they do it. But how can one understand what they don’t feel when they are blinded by their own demons. Diluting is what’s being done to this form. I’m writing this message to all Kenpo/Kempo practitioners, ‘Study your Fist of Law and theChina/Empty Hand’.
I have met and still keep in touch with many of the East Coast students from all parts of the NewEngland area. I’ve taught and seen really good Kenpo/Kempo practitioners, but I understand the dilemma of being between a hard rock and loyalty. When an Artist uses his brush, he knows that adding will keep the similarity to the original vision.
I never use television, books, DVD’s, or tapes for training of one’s Art Style. I understand my duties as a Representative and Successor to the Chow/Chun, Sr’s lineage and roots. The International Self Defense Federation/Association will continue to share and educate the future students of the Art Style of Kenpo/Kempo.
This is not up for discussion. We can talk about it, but would we all really understand it? I learned through my training the hands and feet are not going to be used more than your mind.Which leads to not wasting my energy from, or for one’s point of views of making lies in of one’s own beliefs. When you look at a picture and want to add to this picture, you are not only visualizing, you’re creating from others.
The damage has been done. And for my part, it’s simply correcting who the true creator of the form Hansuki is. And for those who sent their concerns and dismay of what happened to this form, I send my Mahalo (I thank you) for that and want to insure all of you that it’s in good hands.
May all of you be safe and till we get to meet again, god bless and nui loa.
Aloha and Mahalo,
Master Chun, Jr.
KENPOJOE
Brown Belt
Hi folks!
I read the post with Bill Chun Jr's letter and felt that I should address it and the topic of Hansuki in general.
1.Many years ago,When I originally learned the Hansuki form as it was taught in New England through Fred Villari's Original "United Studios of Self Defense" chain, It was known that the form had come from Prof.Chow & that Prof. Nick Cerio had learned the form & brought it back with him to Rhode Island.I started to research Prof.Chow's art from whoever I could find.From Ed Parker to Kimo Ferreira to Sam Kuoha to Bill Marcirelli etc...I have interviewed,attended seminars,taken notes and asked questions to get greater insight into this particular form. I initially met Bill Chun Jr. at one of the first "Gathering of Eagles" in Las Vegas and it was one of the high points of that year's event. Prof.Chun was a humble,unassuming person who was taken aback by the attention he was receiving! I found him to be a wonderful person and it was great introduction to Prof.Chow & his father's art. Afterwards,I would ask him about the Hansuki form and his response was "Why do you want to know about that?" in a simple questioning tone. I then explained that the form was our only legacy to Prof.Chow in a form format.At that time,He did not mention that his father had created the form.But,again,it was not a big deal at that point.
2.Later,I was overjoyed to find that the board of Prof.Cerio's system [of which John James was a member] was bringing in Bill Chun Jr. for a seminar in Rhode Island.I attended the seminar along with Matt Barnes. During the seminar, I asked Prof.Chun regarding the "double angled" lua limb destructions that Prof.Chow performed in his techniques.He was surprised I knew about that aspect of his art and we discussed a few techniques that encompassed that element.I remember Matt Barnes saying tome later "How come what we are going over isn't what You were going over with Bill Chun?" my response:"I asked him a question!". After the seminar,I asked him about Hansuki & again,He was surprised we knew about the form and we explained it was our link to his legacy & asked him to perform the form.He accepted & performed the original form twice.I did not record it out of respect to Prof.Chun & was glad that Matt and others got to see him perform the form.
Through my research,I found that Prof.Cerio was taught the form by Bill Chun Sr [who was Prof.Chow's protege' at that time] and returned to Rhode Island. He realized Prof.Chow's styke was drastically different. He discussed this with his wife at the time,Nancy Lee Cerio. Because of material presented to him,Perhaps he decided to incorporate different aspects of Prof.Chow's art into the form. From my research,I found that Fred Villari had learned the form from Prof. Cerio's brother,Frank Cerio.
I decided to create a video on the form due to the research I had done at that given time.to assist Shaolin Kempo practitioners in their given version of the form that had the additional material not taught in the Original form from Prof.Chow & Chun's lineage. I mentioned Prof Chun [but was not aware that Prof.Chun Sr. had actually created the form for Prof.Chow & he [chow] authorized it's use & allowed it to be taught]in the video at that time.
Since then,Ihad seen Prof.Chun at 2 new england based events,at both of them,he has been kind enough toelaborate on his art,often showing me various points of the "Tien Hsueh" aspects of his art,[but you gotta look close & know what he's showing to you] For that I am truly blessed & forever grateful! He and his wife have always been kind to me and their "down to earth" approach is refreshing & heartfelt. At one event,I passed a copy of the videoI had made so he could see what was being taught in the Shaolin Kempo tradition as far as Hansuki was concerned.I asked him if he would take a look because there were additional material & I wanted to find out if it was still taught in the Chow-Chun tradition.
Awhile later,I received a call from John James stating to me that Prof.Chun had seen my video and was very upset & was so angry that he had brought the video into his garage taken a hammer to it! I was devastated.I had never meant to upset someone who I had great respect for, Who had shared parts of his family's legacy as a sign of good faith,friendship & camaraderie'. I contacted one of his Black Belts via EMail and sent a formal Apology for what had transpired & asked for forgiveness. After awhile,I received a phone callfrom Prof. Chun and in our conversation,he said an important statement"I would never destroy a gift given in friendship". I apologized profusely and we spoke regarding the reason why I passed along the video to him in the first place. I saw him at another event afterwards & spoke to him & enjoyed another seminar with him!
4. I have not sold this video in any major format. Basically this is the most press I've gotten about the now DVD in ages,Every once in a blue moon someone will email me regarding it because there is nothing available in electronic media other than a person just performing the form.Whenever anyone asks me regarding the form,I clearly the corrected history as I know it & clearly state Prof.Chun Sr as being the creator of the form as a student & personal student of Prof.Chow.& that he [Chun Sr.] taught the form to prof.Cerio. I also recommend Prof.Bill Chun Jr to learn the Original version of hansuki & the source of the Chow-Chun lineage.
In closing,let me state that what I have offered was not on a major level. No one saw any full page ads in Black Belt magazine,no webpages dedicated to sales of that video/dvd.I'mnot putting any down payments on a porche from the sales of this.I might have sold enough copies to count on less than 2 hands over a decade+1/2 plus! If I am one of the people that this letter was aimed at,Once again,I apologize. I have the utmost respect for Prof.Chun & his family's art. Simply stated;this is probably the most press this has gotten in awhile & I definitely don't go out of my way to promote it.
I hope that I was of service,
Joseph P. Rebelo II
KENPOJOE
I read the post with Bill Chun Jr's letter and felt that I should address it and the topic of Hansuki in general.
1.Many years ago,When I originally learned the Hansuki form as it was taught in New England through Fred Villari's Original "United Studios of Self Defense" chain, It was known that the form had come from Prof.Chow & that Prof. Nick Cerio had learned the form & brought it back with him to Rhode Island.I started to research Prof.Chow's art from whoever I could find.From Ed Parker to Kimo Ferreira to Sam Kuoha to Bill Marcirelli etc...I have interviewed,attended seminars,taken notes and asked questions to get greater insight into this particular form. I initially met Bill Chun Jr. at one of the first "Gathering of Eagles" in Las Vegas and it was one of the high points of that year's event. Prof.Chun was a humble,unassuming person who was taken aback by the attention he was receiving! I found him to be a wonderful person and it was great introduction to Prof.Chow & his father's art. Afterwards,I would ask him about the Hansuki form and his response was "Why do you want to know about that?" in a simple questioning tone. I then explained that the form was our only legacy to Prof.Chow in a form format.At that time,He did not mention that his father had created the form.But,again,it was not a big deal at that point.
2.Later,I was overjoyed to find that the board of Prof.Cerio's system [of which John James was a member] was bringing in Bill Chun Jr. for a seminar in Rhode Island.I attended the seminar along with Matt Barnes. During the seminar, I asked Prof.Chun regarding the "double angled" lua limb destructions that Prof.Chow performed in his techniques.He was surprised I knew about that aspect of his art and we discussed a few techniques that encompassed that element.I remember Matt Barnes saying tome later "How come what we are going over isn't what You were going over with Bill Chun?" my response:"I asked him a question!". After the seminar,I asked him about Hansuki & again,He was surprised we knew about the form and we explained it was our link to his legacy & asked him to perform the form.He accepted & performed the original form twice.I did not record it out of respect to Prof.Chun & was glad that Matt and others got to see him perform the form.
Through my research,I found that Prof.Cerio was taught the form by Bill Chun Sr [who was Prof.Chow's protege' at that time] and returned to Rhode Island. He realized Prof.Chow's styke was drastically different. He discussed this with his wife at the time,Nancy Lee Cerio. Because of material presented to him,Perhaps he decided to incorporate different aspects of Prof.Chow's art into the form. From my research,I found that Fred Villari had learned the form from Prof. Cerio's brother,Frank Cerio.
I decided to create a video on the form due to the research I had done at that given time.to assist Shaolin Kempo practitioners in their given version of the form that had the additional material not taught in the Original form from Prof.Chow & Chun's lineage. I mentioned Prof Chun [but was not aware that Prof.Chun Sr. had actually created the form for Prof.Chow & he [chow] authorized it's use & allowed it to be taught]in the video at that time.
Since then,Ihad seen Prof.Chun at 2 new england based events,at both of them,he has been kind enough toelaborate on his art,often showing me various points of the "Tien Hsueh" aspects of his art,[but you gotta look close & know what he's showing to you] For that I am truly blessed & forever grateful! He and his wife have always been kind to me and their "down to earth" approach is refreshing & heartfelt. At one event,I passed a copy of the videoI had made so he could see what was being taught in the Shaolin Kempo tradition as far as Hansuki was concerned.I asked him if he would take a look because there were additional material & I wanted to find out if it was still taught in the Chow-Chun tradition.
Awhile later,I received a call from John James stating to me that Prof.Chun had seen my video and was very upset & was so angry that he had brought the video into his garage taken a hammer to it! I was devastated.I had never meant to upset someone who I had great respect for, Who had shared parts of his family's legacy as a sign of good faith,friendship & camaraderie'. I contacted one of his Black Belts via EMail and sent a formal Apology for what had transpired & asked for forgiveness. After awhile,I received a phone callfrom Prof. Chun and in our conversation,he said an important statement"I would never destroy a gift given in friendship". I apologized profusely and we spoke regarding the reason why I passed along the video to him in the first place. I saw him at another event afterwards & spoke to him & enjoyed another seminar with him!
4. I have not sold this video in any major format. Basically this is the most press I've gotten about the now DVD in ages,Every once in a blue moon someone will email me regarding it because there is nothing available in electronic media other than a person just performing the form.Whenever anyone asks me regarding the form,I clearly the corrected history as I know it & clearly state Prof.Chun Sr as being the creator of the form as a student & personal student of Prof.Chow.& that he [Chun Sr.] taught the form to prof.Cerio. I also recommend Prof.Bill Chun Jr to learn the Original version of hansuki & the source of the Chow-Chun lineage.
In closing,let me state that what I have offered was not on a major level. No one saw any full page ads in Black Belt magazine,no webpages dedicated to sales of that video/dvd.I'mnot putting any down payments on a porche from the sales of this.I might have sold enough copies to count on less than 2 hands over a decade+1/2 plus! If I am one of the people that this letter was aimed at,Once again,I apologize. I have the utmost respect for Prof.Chun & his family's art. Simply stated;this is probably the most press this has gotten in awhile & I definitely don't go out of my way to promote it.
I hope that I was of service,
Joseph P. Rebelo II
KENPOJOE
John James
Yellow Belt
Dear Mr. Rebelo,
I hope all is well with you and your students. It has been a while since we've had the opportunity to meet. I was talking today with Master Chun, Jr. and he brought up the subject of your reply to his letter. He wished me to post on his behalf that he wasn't sure what you were apologizing for and that is was not necessary. However, if you feel the need to speak to him in person, he will be in the New England area in October of this year doing a Workshop. If this is your wish, please contact me privately, offline, and we can discuss this further. And since we're on the subject of your response, and that you mentioned my name prominently more than once, my reply to you did not involve the destruction of your tape with a 'hammer' but merely Master Chun, Jr. in his garage with a 'tire'.
Sincerely,
Sensee John James
I hope all is well with you and your students. It has been a while since we've had the opportunity to meet. I was talking today with Master Chun, Jr. and he brought up the subject of your reply to his letter. He wished me to post on his behalf that he wasn't sure what you were apologizing for and that is was not necessary. However, if you feel the need to speak to him in person, he will be in the New England area in October of this year doing a Workshop. If this is your wish, please contact me privately, offline, and we can discuss this further. And since we're on the subject of your response, and that you mentioned my name prominently more than once, my reply to you did not involve the destruction of your tape with a 'hammer' but merely Master Chun, Jr. in his garage with a 'tire'.
Sincerely,
Sensee John James
John James
Yellow Belt
Master Bill Chun, Jr., President of the GSJK/CKK Federation & the Kenpo/Kempo Lo Kahi Association, would like it known that the 'tire' referenced in the previous post is used for conditioning and development purposes in GSJK/CKK.
Sincerely,
Sensee John James,
Vice President, Kenpo/Kempo Lo Kahi Association & GSJK/CKK Federation member
Sincerely,
Sensee John James,
Vice President, Kenpo/Kempo Lo Kahi Association & GSJK/CKK Federation member
youngbraveheart
Green Belt
Master Bill Chun Jr. is seriously considering sharing the Original Hansuki, the form created by his father, Grandmaster Bill Chun, Sr, on DVD. He wasn't sure if the world was ready for it. I think "the world would eat it up!"
Last edited:
punisher73
Senior Master
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
- Messages
- 3,959
- Reaction score
- 1,062
I would love to see it. At some point, I think the art should be shared so it doesn't pass away and get lost.
youngbraveheart
Green Belt
Funny, I am not eager to see it (or learn it) even though I see Brian practicing it. I pay more attention to what I'm expected to know. I just know it's a special form only for certain few chosen blackbelts in the Chow/Chun art style. Heck, I may never even become blackbelt, or if I did, I may never be chosen to learn it.
Similar threads
Latest Discussions
-
Chen Style Basics Series -- Zuǒyòu chājiǎo (left and right rub with heel)- Latest: windwalker099
-
-
-
-
Aging, health issues and Martial Arts. - Martial Journal- Latest: Kung Fu Wang
-
