Hong Kong

[KamonGuy2]

Just came back from Hong Kong
Disastrous....

Our main aim was to go over and train with Ip chun and maybe a couple of other guys if we could

When I got there, Ip Chun claimed that his class was too full and busy to allow us to train (he had 5 students in his class)

The person who answered the phone for the Gary Lam school basically told us to get lost (no joke)

Wan Kam Leung was fantastic and allowed my students to train for 10 hours for arond 120 HKD, and it was prety much a one on one session (ie his class was empty)

Sam Lau was a complete gentleman and really friendly. Basically asked me to show my forms in front of his students (very embarrasssing), but in exchange he gave me some advice and allowed me to do a bit of chi sao with one of his students. Friendly bunch of guys

But at least I went over there and made the most of it. Very disappointed by Ip Chun. Used to be a bit of a hero of mine, but that image has kind of been tarred

 

[jks9199]

Had you prearranged any of those visits, or did you just show up? That might have effected the welcome you received...

 

[hunt1]

Yes you really need to pre arrange your training when going over there.

 

[mook jong man]

Just came back from Hong Kong
Disastrous....

Our main aim was to go over and train with Ip chun and maybe a couple of other guys if we could

When I got there, Ip Chun claimed that his class was too full and busy to allow us to train (he had 5 students in his class)

The person who answered the phone for the Gary Lam school basically told us to get lost (no joke)

Wan Kam Leung was fantastic and allowed my students to train for 10 hours for arond 120 HKD, and it was prety much a one on one session (ie his class was empty)

Sam Lau was a complete gentleman and really friendly. Basically asked me to show my forms in front of his students (very embarrasssing), but in exchange he gave me some advice and allowed me to do a bit of chi sao with one of his students. Friendly bunch of guys

But at least I went over there and made the most of it. Very disappointed by Ip Chun. Used to be a bit of a hero of mine, but that image has kind of been tarred

Sorry to hear about that mate , but it sounds like one of those deals where you have to have a letter from someone to get into the joint.

For instance when people from our school were going to Hong Kong to train with Sigung Tsui they would have to have a letter from our master or Sigung would not teach them.

It seems a bit funny to our western way of thinking but thats the way they do things over there apparently.

But still you'd think they'd be a bit more welcoming , considering you came all the way from bloody England.

I don't know mate , if they want the art to die out they're going the right way about it , with some of the fees they charge and the way they act.

It wasn't a complete loss though mate , at least you still got a bit of training in and you will know better next time if you ever decide to go back there.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I had emailed the Ving Tsun address on the website (twice) and my old instructor regularly travels over there to train, and told them we would be coming over - although he is of Chinese descent...

The excuse given was that since the release of the Yip Man, his class has been busy and he can't accomodate everyone. A fact I would totally agree with if his class had been full!!

It was just very disappointing as I had heard that Ip Chun is usually very friendly and makes the effort to train with everyone
I was also very disappointed to hear him say both in person and on youtube that wing chun is more about health than combat and would not realy work against multiple attackers or in pressurised situations

 

[hunt1]

Yip Chun freely admits he never has had any kind of fight in his adult life so you have to take anything he says about fighting and how to use wing chun with a cup or two of salt.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Yip Chun freely admits he never has had any kind of fight in his adult life so you have to take anything he says about fighting and how to use wing chun with a cup or two of salt.

Oh yeah I knew he hadnt had any fights (or none that he wants to admit to), but its a bit bad to say that wing chun isnt really for fighting, especially after all the good work his father put in to making it a useful style

But anyway, this isnt really a personal attack on Ip Chun - he is damn good at what he does, but its kind of like me opening a Yoga school and saying that Yoga wont get you flexible or fit - it is just for fun

 

[bully]

I had emailed the Ving Tsun address on the website (twice) and my old instructor regularly travels over there to train, and told them we would be coming over - although he is of Chinese descent...

The excuse given was that since the release of the Yip Man, his class has been busy and he can't accomodate everyone. A fact I would totally agree with if his class had been full!!

It was just very disappointing as I had heard that Ip Chun is usually very friendly and makes the effort to train with everyone
I was also very disappointed to hear him say both in person and on youtube that wing chun is more about health than combat and would not realy work against multiple attackers or in pressurised situations

Got any links to that?

Had a search but cant see it.

 

[mook jong man]

I had emailed the Ving Tsun address on the website (twice) and my old instructor regularly travels over there to train, and told them we would be coming over - although he is of Chinese descent...

The excuse given was that since the release of the Yip Man, his class has been busy and he can't accomodate everyone. A fact I would totally agree with if his class had been full!!

It was just very disappointing as I had heard that Ip Chun is usually very friendly and makes the effort to train with everyone
I was also very disappointed to hear him say both in person and on youtube that wing chun is more about health than combat and would not realy work against multiple attackers or in pressurised situations

Hmm , I think Wong Sheung Leung might have disagreed with him there.

 

[geezer]

Just came back from Hong Kong
Disastrous....

Our main aim was to go over and train with Ip chun and maybe a couple of other guys if we could ...When I got there, Ip Chun claimed that his class was too full and busy to allow us to train (he had 5 students in his class) ...Very disappointed by Ip Chun. Used to be a bit of a hero of mine, but that image has kind of been tarred

A si-dai of mine and a couple of his friends were in Hong Kong a few years back and had a similar experience. When they stopped by Yip Chun's studio as arranged, apparently he wouldn't even answer the door. Then again, my si-dai was a student of Leung Ting at that time and what with WC/WT/VT politics being what they are, I can understand Yip Chun wasn't feeling especially welcoming on that occasion, no matter how sincere my si-dai was about meeting him.

So Kamon, you have my sympathy. I would love an opportunity to train under one of Yip Man's sons. On the other hand, I've heard several very high level people point out that Wing Chun is not something that's inherited... so I don't know if Yip Chun really merited "hero" status or not. I do know that my former instructor didn't! If you've followed the news from Hong Kong, you know what I'm talking about. At any rate it's good to have you back and posting again.

 

[Tensei85]

Just came back from Hong Kong
Disastrous....

Our main aim was to go over and train with Ip chun and maybe a couple of other guys if we could

When I got there, Ip Chun claimed that his class was too full and busy to allow us to train (he had 5 students in his class)

The person who answered the phone for the Gary Lam school basically told us to get lost (no joke)

Wan Kam Leung was fantastic and allowed my students to train for 10 hours for arond 120 HKD, and it was prety much a one on one session (ie his class was empty)

Sam Lau was a complete gentleman and really friendly. Basically asked me to show my forms in front of his students (very embarrasssing), but in exchange he gave me some advice and allowed me to do a bit of chi sao with one of his students. Friendly bunch of guys

But at least I went over there and made the most of it. Very disappointed by Ip Chun. Used to be a bit of a hero of mine, but that image has kind of been tarred

You have my sympathy as well but on the bright side atleast you got some training in, so it wasn't a completely worthless trip & I imagine you had an opportunity to check out some of the sites as well. Hong Kong is a great place & has a lot to offer in the realms of tourism.

Good luck with training

 

[Laoshi77]

Hmm , I think Wong Sheung Leung might have disagreed with him there.

Master Wong's WC was a little different though in the sense that it was modified for fighting.

Hong Kong is a great place & has a lot to offer in the realms of tourism.

Absolutely, HK is one of the most interesting and friendly (major) cities I've ever visited. I'd love to go back soon!

 

[MattB]

Hey I studied in Hong Kong a few years back I had a good time. I lived there for about a year. I can understand the problem what alot of pepole had when trying to train there. I joined a club at a college and through some the other club members I got to meet & train with other Wing Chun experts. It seems that the proplem for some of you is that you go right to the Master frist. In China personal realtionships or improtant so you cant just show up.
Also I don't Ip Chun teaches publicaly anymore.

Sorry for being offline in like forever

 

[KamonGuy2]

Master Wong's WC was a little different though in the sense that it was modified for fighting

You can see that through Wan Kam Leung who was great
A lot of good wing chun schools will use it practically. I admire teachers for being honest with arts that they teach (ie if something is a sports based art like TKD then say it is that etc)Too many instructors try and make out that their art is the best art in the world and had some link to Bruce Lee etc

Wing chun is an art that is ideal for street use. It has limited applications in sport (chi sao competitions etc), and there are much better arts for fitness (boxing, tai bo, BJJ). Why a master would suggest it is solely for fitness is beyond me. It is like George Foreman coming out and saying that boxing could never be used in the ring

Absolutely, HK is one of the most interesting and friendly (major) cities I've ever visited. I'd love to go back soon!

I wouldnt say friendly!! One woman started shouting 'immigant' at me in a supermarket! Most people shoved into me as I was walking down the road.
The only friendly place there was Wan Chai and well...lets not go there...

It is certainly an interesting place though. Very colourful and busy.

 

[Zero]

I wouldnt say friendly!! One woman started shouting 'immigant' at me in a supermarket! Most people shoved into me as I was walking down the road.
The only friendly place there was Wan Chai and well...lets not go there...

It is certainly an interesting place though. Very colourful and busy.

I think you should give HK another go sometime Maybe when you have a for-sure invite arranged for your students). The "immigrant" thing was probably a one-off and the streets are busy, with different "pedestrian" rules/etiquette. I have been there a half dozen times and the place is a great destination with a lot of fun to be had and is generally safe. Great cheap food too!

 

[hunt1]

Kamon Guy Yip Chuns comments about wing chun and fighting go back to the time he Kicked Sam Kwok out of his organization . I think that was 7 to 10 years or so ago. While he has since gotten over it and accepted Sam. The incident occured because Sam started training with Yip Ching and made comments that Yip Chings wing chun was the fighting wing chun and Yip Chuns was not.

 

[Xue Sheng]

A si-dai of mine and a couple of his friends were in Hong Kong a few years back and had a similar experience. When they stopped by Yip Chun's studio as arranged, apparently he wouldn't even answer the door. Then again, my si-dai was a student of Leung Ting at that time and what with WC/WT/VT politics being what they are, I can understand Yip Chun wasn't feeling especially welcoming on that occasion, no matter how sincere my si-dai was about meeting him.

So Kamon, you have my sympathy. I would love an opportunity to train under one of Yip Man's sons. On the other hand, I've heard several very high level people point out that Wing Chun is not something that's inherited... so I don't know if Yip Chun really merited "hero" status or not. I do know that my former instructor didn't! If you've followed the news from Hong Kong, you know what I'm talking about. At any rate it's good to have you back and posting again.

My Wing Chun sifu was/is a student of Ip Ching and he is very happy and rather skilled too. I meant Ip Ching once and he seemed like a good guy.

So there is always Ip Ching (the younger son)


Kamon I am sorry to hear about the Ip Chun stuff, I know nothing about him actually other than his books I have read but from what little I know of Wing Chun politics nothing surprises me.

 

[geezer]

...Sam started training with Yip Ching and made comments that Yip Chings wing chun was the fighting wing chun and Yip Chuns was not.

I'd heard something similar, but less polite from some Hong Kong Chinese Sifus way back in the 80's. It was something like, "Yip Chun only knows half of what Yip Ching knows... and that is nothing!" Personally, I felt this statement reflected very badly on the speakers and disregarded it. (And, if indeed that is the case, I would be quite content to reach the level of knowing "nothing" someday).

On the other hand, I recall another occasion on which my former sifu commented, in reference to Yip Chun and Yip Ching that, "Everone thinks that it should be the older brother who is always the better one. But I tell you the truth, it is not always the case."

Now I've never met either Yip brother, and if I did, I doubt that I have the knowledge to make such a judgement for myself. But Hunt, you seem to be privy to a lot of behind the scenes talk. In your experience, is there anything like a general concensus on this question about the Yips among their peers in Wing Chun?

 

[blindsage]

Master Wong's WC was a little different though in the sense that it was modified for fighting.

I'm confused, so what Yip Man taught wasn't for fighting?

 

[Nabakatsu]

No Blindsage, that's not whats going on here, just the specific way the sons of yip man have trained and taught or perhaps more specifically Yip Chun.
WSL and others certainly would not agree with his views.