Herbs vs Pharmacuticals
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sgtmac_46
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Maybe it explains why the life expetency was 30 and never more than 50. Magical thinking is no substitute for scientific understanding of disease and the effect of drugs.mantis said:
Old diseases were simpler than today, though...You got real sick, and died or you got better on your own. Sometimes the real miracle was surviving the cure. There were exceptions, but for the most part, it was all snake oil.
With all this excessive "polution, adultry and excessive practices" human beings still out live our ancestors. We must be doing something right. I've lost count of the number of people who try to explain to me why there is more "cancer" today than in days gone by. I always ask them how they know there was less cancer? What really happened is people just didn't know what most cancer was and people just "died" of some unidentified illnesses.
There seems to be a psychological phenomenon where humans seek to convince themselves that things are constantly getting worse. That there was some "Golden Age" in the past when everything was really good, and that we are getting further away from it. If things were so good then, we would have never changed. Much (Not all) but much of the Herbal Medicine movement seems to be an attempt to return to this mythical age.
you're only looking at europe when you talk about low expetency.
and that's because it was the dark ages for europe back then. but the case was different in south east asia, the middle east, and north africa.
"With all this excessive "polution, adultry and excessive practices" human beings still out live our ancestors. We must be doing something right. I've lost count of the number of people who try to explain to me why there is more "cancer" today than in days gone by. I always ask them how they know there was less cancer? What really happened is people just didn't know what most cancer was and people just "died" of some unidentified illnesses."
i think your argument here is reasonable enough.
and that's because it was the dark ages for europe back then. but the case was different in south east asia, the middle east, and north africa.
"With all this excessive "polution, adultry and excessive practices" human beings still out live our ancestors. We must be doing something right. I've lost count of the number of people who try to explain to me why there is more "cancer" today than in days gone by. I always ask them how they know there was less cancer? What really happened is people just didn't know what most cancer was and people just "died" of some unidentified illnesses."
i think your argument here is reasonable enough.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
There probably IS more cancer today, relatively. That's because, with the exception of some pediatric cancers, cancer takes a long time to develop. If you die in infancy, or at a young age because of infection, or in childbirth due to puerperal sepsis, you won't be around long enough to get colon cancer or prostate cancer.
I use vitamins, herbal treatments and allopathic medicine. The problem, I think, with most herbal treatments, is that no one tests them in a blinded manner. Testing would make it more acceptable to physicians and skeptics. It's not a doctors' conspiracy...it's just that most doctors won't prescribe something that hasn't been tested.
I use vitamins, herbal treatments and allopathic medicine. The problem, I think, with most herbal treatments, is that no one tests them in a blinded manner. Testing would make it more acceptable to physicians and skeptics. It's not a doctors' conspiracy...it's just that most doctors won't prescribe something that hasn't been tested.
Yup...the longer you live, the mor elikely cancer becomes. It's been said that everyone would die of cancer if they lived long enough.
But, there are dietary and other issues that also affect the current rate.
But, there are dietary and other issues that also affect the current rate.
good point
coming back to natural therapy you will find that the black seed, honey, green tea, and other fruits help prevent cancer.
but who drinks/eats that stuff anymore? we eat cancer pills packaged in a "happy meal" McDonald wrap!
coming back to natural therapy you will find that the black seed, honey, green tea, and other fruits help prevent cancer.
but who drinks/eats that stuff anymore? we eat cancer pills packaged in a "happy meal" McDonald wrap!
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
If you want to swear off McDonald's, I suggest you read "Fast Food Nation," and see the movie "Supersize Me." Even my kids won't go to McDonald's anymore.
Cinnamon also helps regulate blood sugar, which is good for diabetics and even hypoglycemics. I used to be hypoglycemic. I also took chromium for blood sugar regulation. So there are tretments for diabetes that are withheld by the drug companies that would otherwise cut deeply into thier profits.arnisador said:
When my cholestrol was not really high, but higher than it ever had been - my Dr just told me to get it down. She did not want to use drugs since it was not "high" but she didn't want it to go higher. I used herbal remedies to lower it. This is how I learned that garlic was a natural blood thinner. A lot of people take an expensive drug called kumudin to thin thier blood, garlic will do the same thing, as will reishi mushroom
Herbal remedies do work. But you have to do your homework and be careful out there.
i dont mean to post too much
but from what i can read i can tell that using herbs and natural therapy is mostly preventive and can get to some level of complexity whereas using more complicated chemical forumlas is believed to help cure problematic diseases and illnesses.
at least everyone seems to agree that herbs and natural fruits at least help you be healthier
which reminds me of an old saying we have back home: "eating one apple makes you not go to a doctor for a thousand days"
(yes i do hate translating cultural stuff)
but from what i can read i can tell that using herbs and natural therapy is mostly preventive and can get to some level of complexity whereas using more complicated chemical forumlas is believed to help cure problematic diseases and illnesses.
at least everyone seems to agree that herbs and natural fruits at least help you be healthier
which reminds me of an old saying we have back home: "eating one apple makes you not go to a doctor for a thousand days"
(yes i do hate translating cultural stuff)
I think that there are basic elements about our health that are generally ignored by allopathological physicians which, if monitored and cared for, could alter the course of our health dramatically. Examples would be gut peptides and enzymes, salivary PH and stomach PH, proper balance of gut flora, hormone balances, metabolization of metals, digestive output.
These are easy, easy, EASY to remedy and fairly inexpensive to test - certainly no more than a standard CBC and electrolyte panel. They are also easy to balance through natural alternatives.
But the MAJOR source of our health and recovery is right in front of us several times per day ... FOOD!! And the major problem about this is that this is NOT CONSIDERED as a viable treatment for disease by doctors. Sad.
These are easy, easy, EASY to remedy and fairly inexpensive to test - certainly no more than a standard CBC and electrolyte panel. They are also easy to balance through natural alternatives.
But the MAJOR source of our health and recovery is right in front of us several times per day ... FOOD!! And the major problem about this is that this is NOT CONSIDERED as a viable treatment for disease by doctors. Sad.
It almost worked on my kids...but Happy Meal toys won the younger one back, and the odler one tags along. The older one was really impressed by the movie and for a while it affected his habits.Phoenix44 said:
It's insidious.
Eh, I don't think that anyone is withholding cinnamon.JAMJTX said:
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Yeah you know, I read somewhere that people who take Antacid tablets daily for "Calcium" (like Tums) and for Daily control of heartburn are more likely to get ill from the foods they eat and are more likely to develop parasites... so Id say there may be somthing to that.shesulsa said:
Yeah, a certain amount of stomach acid is good...too much can damage the esophagus, etc. There are so many options for controlling it medically nowadays, but diet can still have a big effect.
No genius, but when was the last time you heard of a Dr. telling a patient to add cinnamon to thier diet in stead of selling them expensive insulin and repete office visits? That will never happen.arnisador said:
The Drug Companies and the AMA still continue to tell the public that there is no cure for diabetes, when there is not only a cure sitting right in most people's pantry. I know several people who have been cured of diabetes through diet, herbs and vitamin therapy.
Urban legend. I hear these claims but can never document them. It reminds me of the time my grandmother was cured of cancer. She was feeling bad and asked the church to pray for her. After awhile someone stood up and said they knew what was wrong and said that she had cancer. The congregation then prayed and she was cured of her cancer. She still tells people how prayer cured her cancer.JAMJTX said:
As to diet, Type II Diabetes is very diet dependent. Caloric restriction and weight loss can cure it and most doctors try very hard to get patients to go that root. Few patients are willing to take personal responsibility for their illness and force us to provide bandaids (i.e. insulin.) The vitamin industry tries to claim responsibility for the cure when it is really decreased caloric intake, decreased abdominal obesity and increased activity which is the cure. This is available to every Type II Diabetic for free but few make the changes. I tell everyone that I have good news and bad news. The good news is that their disease can be cured. The bad news is that only they can cure themselves and that it will take hard work and dilligence.
Type I Diabetes is a different animal. Type I Diabetics have no functioning endocrine activity in their pancreas and diet and cinnamon will kill these people. This can be quite dangerous and I've had personal experience with 2 patients who almost died trying to cure themselves with vitamins, herbs, diet and earnest but dangerous advisors. They approached it with a near religious fervor and only IV fluids insulin and a little luck saved their lives.
Doctors are plagued by several things that most vitamin pushers are not. Physicians are legally, ethically and morally responsible for those they care for. Most doctors have spent time with patients actively dying and they feel very responsible for their care even when things are not going well. In my experience even arrogant bad doctors feel this responsibility. For most doctors this is a very ijmportant part of their life and permeates every aspect of their day and their relationship to everyone including their family. It is an awesome responsibility and is good for society but I don't think it is good for the physicians and their family (Just unavoidable.)
Statements such as you make above about physicians ignoring a cure just sitting in their pantry are inflammatory with no basis in fact. The AMA like all organizations run by "Suits" is flawed but I don't believe they have any official position on the cure of Diabetes. The Medical profession actively promotes diet for Type II Diabetes. The Pharmaceutical companies are run by "suits" who drive BMWs and only care about the bottom line but are heavily regulated and unlikely to be successful without effective products. The scientists at the pharmaceutical companies care deeply about their work and want very much to improve the lives of others. Most of the vitamin industry has substituted rhetoric and flash for careful work and the sense of responsibility necesary to improve lives. Some do care but substitute philosophy and near religious fervor for facts and careful evaluation of the effectiveness of their ideology.
If you want to live longer eat less and get thinner. If you want to stay active and stay out of nursing homes, get fit. If you want to keep a sharp mind never quit thinking and keep learnig new things. Medicine as a profession understands this and preaches it but has little control over peoples individual choices. We are forced to use "high tech" bandaids and criticized when they are inadequate. Smokers and their families wonder why we cannot cure damaged lungs, fat inactive diabetics wonder why we can't cure thier diabetes and people with runny noses which will resolve on their own in 7-10 days want us to fix them instantly. Vitamins in general are just a distraction from the important message that health comes from limiting calories, adding vegetables to the diet, maintaining activity, playing, maintaing a social life, maintaining friendships, thinking and learning. Real long term health is personally driven.
Sorry about the rant,
Jeff
Well, Jeff, I wanted to be a physician but as fate would have it ... I'm not one. I respect the responsibilities of doctors, the efforts, the blood sweat and tears. But I gotta say ... sorry, man, but I have an excellent example of the failure of western medicine to utilize diet as a major healing facter - the Ketogenic diet for epilipsy. Studies have shown that 80% of children who have no success with prophylaxis therapy can be cured of epilepsy using this diet for a period of a little over a year, after such period can return to a normal diet. Could you comment on this?Kenpodoc said:Statements such as you make above about physicians ignoring a cure just sitting in their pantry are inflammatory with no basis in fact. The AMA like all organizations run by "Suits" is flawed but I don't believe they have any official position on the cure of Diabetes.
If you want to live longer eat less and get thinner. If you want to stay active and stay out of nursing homes, get fit. If you want to keep a sharp mind never quit thinking and keep learnig new things. Medicine as a profession understands this and preaches it but has little control over peoples individual choices. We are forced to use "high tech" bandaids and criticized when they are inadequate. Smokers and their families wonder why we cannot cure damaged lungs, fat inactive diabetics wonder why we can't cure thier diabetes and people with runny noses which will resolve on their own in 7-10 days want us to fix them instantly. Vitamins in general are just a distraction from the important message that health comes from limiting calories, adding vegetables to the diet, maintaining activity, playing, maintaing a social life, maintaining friendships, thinking and learning. Real long term health is personally driven.
Sorry about the rant,
Jeff
Do you have a cite?
From the Stanford website:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/ketodiet/ketolit.html
Recent Medical Literature on Ketogenic Diet
1. Prasad AN; Stafstrom CF; Holmes GL. Alternative epilepsy therapies: the ketogenic diet, immunoglobulins, and steroids. Epilepsia, 1996, 37 Suppl 1:S81-95.
2. Al-Mudallal AS; LaManna JC; Lust WD; Harik SI. Diet-induced ketosis does not cause cerebral acidosis. Epilepsia, 1996 Mar, 37(3):258-61. (UI: 96175188)
3. Wheless JW. The ketogenic diet: Fa(c)t or fiction [editorial]. Journal of Child Neurology, 1995 Nov, 10(6):419-23. Pub type: Editorial. (UI: 96155671)
4. Amari A; Grace NC; Fisher WW. Achieving and maintaining compliance with the ketogenic diet. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, 1995 Fall, 28(3):341-2. Pub type: Clinical Trial; Journal Article; Randomized Controlled Trial. (UI: 96004165)
5. Nebeling LC; Lerner E. Implementing a ketogenic diet based on medium-chain triglyceride oil in pediatric patients with cancer. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1995 Jun, 95(6):693-7. Pub type: Journal Article; Review; Review, Tutorial. (UI: 95279660)
6. Nebeling LC; Miraldi F; Shurin SB; Lerner E. Effects of a ketogenic diet on tumor metabolism and nutritional status in pediatric oncology patients: two case reports. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 1995 Apr, 14(2):202-8. (UI: 95310706)
7. Kinsman SL; Vining EP; Quaskey SA; Mellits D; Freeman JM. Efficacy of the ketogenic diet for intractable seizure disorders: review of 58 cases. Epilepsia, 1992 Nov-Dec, 33(6):1132-6. (UI: 93099806)
http://www.stanford.edu/group/ketodiet/ketolit.html
Recent Medical Literature on Ketogenic Diet
1. Prasad AN; Stafstrom CF; Holmes GL. Alternative epilepsy therapies: the ketogenic diet, immunoglobulins, and steroids. Epilepsia, 1996, 37 Suppl 1:S81-95.
2. Al-Mudallal AS; LaManna JC; Lust WD; Harik SI. Diet-induced ketosis does not cause cerebral acidosis. Epilepsia, 1996 Mar, 37(3):258-61. (UI: 96175188)
3. Wheless JW. The ketogenic diet: Fa(c)t or fiction [editorial]. Journal of Child Neurology, 1995 Nov, 10(6):419-23. Pub type: Editorial. (UI: 96155671)
4. Amari A; Grace NC; Fisher WW. Achieving and maintaining compliance with the ketogenic diet. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, 1995 Fall, 28(3):341-2. Pub type: Clinical Trial; Journal Article; Randomized Controlled Trial. (UI: 96004165)
5. Nebeling LC; Lerner E. Implementing a ketogenic diet based on medium-chain triglyceride oil in pediatric patients with cancer. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 1995 Jun, 95(6):693-7. Pub type: Journal Article; Review; Review, Tutorial. (UI: 95279660)
6. Nebeling LC; Miraldi F; Shurin SB; Lerner E. Effects of a ketogenic diet on tumor metabolism and nutritional status in pediatric oncology patients: two case reports. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 1995 Apr, 14(2):202-8. (UI: 95310706)
7. Kinsman SL; Vining EP; Quaskey SA; Mellits D; Freeman JM. Efficacy of the ketogenic diet for intractable seizure disorders: review of 58 cases. Epilepsia, 1992 Nov-Dec, 33(6):1132-6. (UI: 93099806)
