Helping Strangers
- Thread starter AceHBK
- Start date
Personally, I think the best help you can offer, is to call the police. It is not wise, IMO, to act yourself, as you could very well be biting off more than you can chew. An example: There was a shooting last week at a bar right here in my home town. Resulted in 2 people getting killed. The bar was hosting an event. Apparently 2 people got into a verbal argument. The DJ was trying to keep things civil and as a result, was shot and killed. The person the suspect was arguing with was also killed.
So, as you can see, innocent intervention was fatal. We don't know if there are weapons, who the people are, why they're fighting, etc.
The best option: Call the police and provide the dispatcher with exact details, ie: Whats happening, race and clothing description of the parties involved, any weapons, if someone leaves, are they on foot? If so, direction of travel. If in a car, get the make, model, color, DOT.
IMO, this is more helpful than anything we could do.
Mike
Sometime just a presence is a help....Saw an old man being bothered by a young by a young gang banger type outside a beverage store.. I could see the man was a little distressed...I aked what the problem was and the punk said it was " Nunnya business".. I him I'm making it my business...The old man managed to get in his car and the punk said "I need a dollar" ..I told him to get a job and leave...
As far as I remember I have never been in a situation where it was needed that I had to use physical force to help a stranger. Never the less I believe that I have a moral obligation to help out but it really depends on the situation (doesn't everything? 
).
As far as I am concerned it depends on the victim of the fight. If two guys start to use each other as punching bags at the local bar I would be reluctant to step in. But I would still have a moral obligation to help, so I would call the police, get the bouncer etc. and then keep an eye on things. If the fight gets really dirty, for instance if one of the guys get knocked out and the other one continues to beat the crap out of him, I might have to get physical. Difficult to say.
All in all I would hesitate to get physical involved if guys are beating at eachother.
If I on the other hand am walking home late at night and sees a woman being dragged into an abandoned car park by three guys that would be a completely different scenario. In my mind I would not only be obligated to call the police (and if I don't have a phone then this might be done by breaking one or more shop windows to start the alarm) but I would also be obligated to make my presense noticed. Waiting for the police to arive would not be an option unless the person recieving my call would say that a patrol car is really close. Waiting five minutes for a patrol car to arrive could very well prove to be too long a wait. If making them aware of me is done by yelling at them to stop or if it would be to attack them from behind (coming up behind them would be preferred) would again depend on the situation. I know that the odds would be heavily against me, and since I haven't been in such a situation I don't know if I would have the stomach for it if it suddenly should become painful reality...
Best regards
Thomas
). As far as I am concerned it depends on the victim of the fight. If two guys start to use each other as punching bags at the local bar I would be reluctant to step in. But I would still have a moral obligation to help, so I would call the police, get the bouncer etc. and then keep an eye on things. If the fight gets really dirty, for instance if one of the guys get knocked out and the other one continues to beat the crap out of him, I might have to get physical. Difficult to say.
All in all I would hesitate to get physical involved if guys are beating at eachother.
If I on the other hand am walking home late at night and sees a woman being dragged into an abandoned car park by three guys that would be a completely different scenario. In my mind I would not only be obligated to call the police (and if I don't have a phone then this might be done by breaking one or more shop windows to start the alarm) but I would also be obligated to make my presense noticed. Waiting for the police to arive would not be an option unless the person recieving my call would say that a patrol car is really close. Waiting five minutes for a patrol car to arrive could very well prove to be too long a wait. If making them aware of me is done by yelling at them to stop or if it would be to attack them from behind (coming up behind them would be preferred) would again depend on the situation. I know that the odds would be heavily against me, and since I haven't been in such a situation I don't know if I would have the stomach for it if it suddenly should become painful reality...
Best regards
Thomas
very good topic post. It always depends on the situation.....look if i saw a woman, dhild or animal being hurt then guess what......i would do my best to help out
no kidding......MO, state legislature states that you cannot be punished if you defend others which need it.
I have helped out when I have seen "tough guys" beat women children or animals in the open public.
I have no problem stepping up or getting attentiion to the situation, period.
no kidding......MO, state legislature states that you cannot be punished if you defend others which need it.
I have helped out when I have seen "tough guys" beat women children or animals in the open public.
I have no problem stepping up or getting attentiion to the situation, period.
Well said Matt..
Matt beat me to it - I agree with what he said.
turtle
Orange Belt
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Agreed. Years ago a neighbor's teenage daughter had a loud screaming fight with her boyfriend. Her parents were away on vacation and things seemed to have gotten out of hand. She told him to leave and ran out of the house. The guy followed her outside in a rage and slammed her against his car and was trying to push her into it. Then he realized that I and another neighbor were both standing in our driveways on our cordless phones calling 911. He tried to make it look like everything was fine and they were just talking but soon the police were pulling up. I don't think neighbor, who was elderly, or I (who had a toddler at time) were in a position to physically intervene but it did seem to help that we were there. If he had continued to beat her or tried to drive away, I'm not sure what I would have done.
LuzRD
Black Belt
While i definately agree that calling the police is priority, i cant help but wonder how much time passed between the thought "i should call the police" (by those that witnessed the argument), and the shooting started. what im getting at is sometimes situations get worse quickly.
what i personally would do (and i cant condone this for anyone else) is to get clear of the situation, call 911 (or better yet, get someone ELSE to call), then return to the argument and just be nearby. yes theres every chance that i could be shot/stabbed/beaten but historically i always deescalate the situation and if i cant at least i am another body to help control the antagonist (and then control the vengeful "innocents")
"Wherever I am,
anyone in need has a friend." (The Warriors Creed, Dr. Robert L. Humphrey)
i agree with what you did completely! you have a family and that is your priority! by calling the police and being a witness you were most likely all the help that was ever needed that day! good job!
turtle
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Perhaps what we can contribute to a situation is also highly dependent on our training and experience.
For example during the Martial Arts Expo this past year, there was a shooting at the New York New York casino across the street from the MGM Grand where the expo was hosted. Someone walked into the New York New York casino and started randomly shooting into the crowd from a mezzanine but was quickly tackled by a number of off duty law enforcement officers and soldiers who happened to be at the casino enjoying their vacations. Because of their quick action, a small number of people received minor injuries. If untrained bystanders had tried to intervene or if no one had the courage to intervene, the outcome could have been drastically different.
For example during the Martial Arts Expo this past year, there was a shooting at the New York New York casino across the street from the MGM Grand where the expo was hosted. Someone walked into the New York New York casino and started randomly shooting into the crowd from a mezzanine but was quickly tackled by a number of off duty law enforcement officers and soldiers who happened to be at the casino enjoying their vacations. Because of their quick action, a small number of people received minor injuries. If untrained bystanders had tried to intervene or if no one had the courage to intervene, the outcome could have been drastically different.
LuzRD
Black Belt
turtle, that situation outlines perfectly what i meant in my response to MJS about "just be nearby".
in the verbal confrontation that MJS described (that turned deadly) if there had been even just a couple of trained (willing) bodies on the scene in a position to act i think that the shooting could have been "potentially" avoided.
of course there is the flip side that says that if someone were there that was ready to act it "may" have gotten worse (theres always a chance that good intentions can go bad), however i think that i would have to act.
to the original question. in my experience i have never had to resort to helping someone in need by physically doing anything. well, one time i had to get physical just to keep someones attention off of the person they were going after (boring story. it involved a bar, closing time, a car and a hotdog) but that was just repeatedly tapping him on the shoulder and talking to him.
by taking control of the communication and talking reason into even the dumbest aggressor i have always been able to turn down the heat in stupid confrontations. i have yet to find myself in a position where i think anyones well being is directly in danger (thankfully), its always been someone with too much to drink feeling big (and usually going after the smaller guy) and they usually cool off rather quick (im about average build, not very menacing lol).
in the verbal confrontation that MJS described (that turned deadly) if there had been even just a couple of trained (willing) bodies on the scene in a position to act i think that the shooting could have been "potentially" avoided.
of course there is the flip side that says that if someone were there that was ready to act it "may" have gotten worse (theres always a chance that good intentions can go bad), however i think that i would have to act.
to the original question. in my experience i have never had to resort to helping someone in need by physically doing anything. well, one time i had to get physical just to keep someones attention off of the person they were going after (boring story. it involved a bar, closing time, a car and a hotdog) but that was just repeatedly tapping him on the shoulder and talking to him.
by taking control of the communication and talking reason into even the dumbest aggressor i have always been able to turn down the heat in stupid confrontations. i have yet to find myself in a position where i think anyones well being is directly in danger (thankfully), its always been someone with too much to drink feeling big (and usually going after the smaller guy) and they usually cool off rather quick (im about average build, not very menacing lol).
Before I started MA I stepped in to help an elderly man that was being assualted by some nutcase. It was along the lines of the 'presence' that Drac posted about.
An old man was pulled of the side of the road and a van was pulled up behind him. I saw a guy get out of the van and storm up to the old man's door. The old man started to get out of the car and the other guy was shoving the door back at him, basically slamming the old man in the door. I pulled over and jumped out of my car and at the same time another man in front of me did the same thing. We both approached the two guys and the person from the van was shouting stuff about the old man trying to kill him and stuff. It was crazy! We tried to settle the guy down and he bolted for his van and took off with tires squealing. The old man said he was alright when offered help. He was visibily shaken by the incident. He must have been in his 80s.
It may have been a stupid move on my part. I had no idea if the man from the van was armed or anything. I didn't have any weapons on me, and I had my family in my car, nearby just across the road. I think I would be a lot more cautious about such a situation now. Although, I'm not sure what I really would have done differently, other than maybe call the police before getting out of my car. Would the police tell me not to approach the situation? If so, could I just stand and watch the poor old man get beat up?
An old man was pulled of the side of the road and a van was pulled up behind him. I saw a guy get out of the van and storm up to the old man's door. The old man started to get out of the car and the other guy was shoving the door back at him, basically slamming the old man in the door. I pulled over and jumped out of my car and at the same time another man in front of me did the same thing. We both approached the two guys and the person from the van was shouting stuff about the old man trying to kill him and stuff. It was crazy! We tried to settle the guy down and he bolted for his van and took off with tires squealing. The old man said he was alright when offered help. He was visibily shaken by the incident. He must have been in his 80s.
It may have been a stupid move on my part. I had no idea if the man from the van was armed or anything. I didn't have any weapons on me, and I had my family in my car, nearby just across the road. I think I would be a lot more cautious about such a situation now. Although, I'm not sure what I really would have done differently, other than maybe call the police before getting out of my car. Would the police tell me not to approach the situation? If so, could I just stand and watch the poor old man get beat up?
Let me start off by saying I personnally do not like violence, now with that being said back in 1982 there was a nieghbor and this gentleman use to beat the living crap out of his kids. The police was at there condo every other weekend, well one particular Saturday they was at the pool and he slap the child and when the child started to cry he slapped him again. I was young and dumb, when the father took his hand up the third time to hit him I kicked him in the side of the head and knocked him out. When the police came they had to take me to jail and attempt to book me on assault charges after talking with the spouse and then looking into there recoords they let me go. I would probaly do the exact same thing if the stituation was the same. I cannot see a child or a woman getting beat down by a man. this has been the only time I ever had to help someone I really did not know.
The hardest thing for me has been "Reality" so to speak. In Haiti, Albania, Israel, Tunisia, Turkey-places I have been in combat I could openly shoot someone.
I did once and this will never leave my memory. In Haiti I had seen a child no more than 6 or 7 stealing a loaf of bread. Well an overweight govt. policeman picked him up from behind and full bore punched the little guy in the back of the head and dropped him unconscious.
I pulled out 1 of my 9mm Baretta's and shot him in the ear from about 10 yds away. P.T.S.D. is a funny thing if you will. It is one of those conditions that you have to make excuses such as "I am/was doing the right thing for others. Being crippled is a badge of honor." That sort of thing. You old timers on the board know a lot of my history.......P.M. me if you want more.
The above reason is one of the very reasons I refuse to own a firearm.
I have no regrets, just a wrestling conscience about a few things. I hope no one has to face.
I did once and this will never leave my memory. In Haiti I had seen a child no more than 6 or 7 stealing a loaf of bread. Well an overweight govt. policeman picked him up from behind and full bore punched the little guy in the back of the head and dropped him unconscious.
I pulled out 1 of my 9mm Baretta's and shot him in the ear from about 10 yds away. P.T.S.D. is a funny thing if you will. It is one of those conditions that you have to make excuses such as "I am/was doing the right thing for others. Being crippled is a badge of honor." That sort of thing. You old timers on the board know a lot of my history.......P.M. me if you want more.
The above reason is one of the very reasons I refuse to own a firearm.
I have no regrets, just a wrestling conscience about a few things. I hope no one has to face.
I can't comment on the time frame, however, it seems that there was a few questions being raised, one being how the shooter, who was 19, was able to get in. There were bouncers/security at the door. What they did, if anything, once it was apparent a disturbance was brewing, I really don't know.
That is the #1 reason though, that I don't like to get involved. My life is more important than trying to jump in the middle of something. Now, that may seem cold and heartless, but while I'm not involving myself physically, I'm still willing to call 911.
Its unlikely that the police were called until after the shots were fired, in this case.
Fiendlover
Black Belt
Hawke
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In the past I have stepped in and intervened. Breaking up a fight between two male strangers (usually their egos) has been easy for me to break up so far. Each situation is different and if I see the guys postering by yelling, pointing fingers, I try to move in before things get worse.
A cop once told me a story about how things can go wrong when you help the child or wife once the family goes home. I know the smart thing to do is to call the cops, but if I see someone in dire need of help something just snaps and I can't just stand there and watch.
A cop once told me a story about how things can go wrong when you help the child or wife once the family goes home. I know the smart thing to do is to call the cops, but if I see someone in dire need of help something just snaps and I can't just stand there and watch.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
Have always felt the phone/HH radio was the most powerful deterrent to criminals--usually strikes instant fear, as your story shows.
jamz
Orange Belt
I've heard enough bad things happen to people who break up male/female fights to make me think twice, even three times about getting involved.
Physically intervening in fights can be a very dangerous situation if you don't know the circumstances of what's going on. The only time I might intervene is when the victim is obviously at a disadvantage and doesn't want to fight. In that case, we have a duty to help the weaker.
If it's two evenly matched men or women, I would let them solve their own problem, or just call 911 and tell them what's going on. Even with the best of intentions, it wouldn't take much for the participants to see you as an interloper and turn on you, or have others get involved.
If it's two evenly matched men or women, I would let them solve their own problem, or just call 911 and tell them what's going on. Even with the best of intentions, it wouldn't take much for the participants to see you as an interloper and turn on you, or have others get involved.
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