Healing or aiding in psychosis

[SwindtPGH]

I am diagnosed with a psychotic disorder (possibly schizophrenia) and I was wondering if there were any healing arts that would aid in this disorder? Yoga? Tai chi? Meditation? Etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[tellner]

I'm not qualified to answer that question. But I would strongly urge you to follow your doctor's advice and use other healing methods as a supplement. Herbal remedies in particular can react with other medication in unpredictable ways.

Fortunately, treatment for these disorders has improved dramatically in the last few decades.

Good luck. G-d bless.

 

[shesulsa]

First of all, don't stop your medications if you're taking any.

I can't imagine that if you're healthy otherwise and any antipsychotic meds you may be taking aren't interfering with your balance that exercise would hurt you.

Talk to your doctors about something like Yoga - it is quieting, relaxing and all exercise helps map the brain.

But you should REALLY TALK TO YOUR DOCTORS.

A.L.A.E.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I am diagnosed with a psychotic disorder (possibly schizophrenia) and I was wondering if there were any healing arts that would aid in this disorder? Yoga? Tai chi? Meditation? Etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think it would be best to speak with your doctor and look at the pro's and con's of the different alternative treatment.
From what I know alternative treatments do have methods of dealing with these types of disorders but because of other factors such as medicine and dosage, how severe, and other factors it can be hard to say which route to go. By becoming educated in your condition and educated in what other methods of healing provide and presenting this to your doctor can the right method be applied. Examples of alternative medicine that can cause problems certain herbs that relax can cause contraindication when taken with powerful antipsychotics. Certain visualization methods could cause problems. Alot of people think for example if they have heart problems to use beta blockers, aspirin, CQ enzyme and a cauldron of other herbs and supplments only to have more problems than they begin with.
The thing with psychitrists is their scope in alternative medicine is limited so your research into it and presenting it to them could help in dealing with your condition.

 

[jks9199]

First of all, don't stop your medications if you're taking any.

I can't imagine that if you're healthy otherwise and any antipsychotic meds you may be taking aren't interfering with your balance that exercise would hurt you.

Talk to your doctors about something like Yoga - it is quieting, relaxing and all exercise helps map the brain.

But you should REALLY TALK TO YOUR DOCTORS.

A.L.A.E.

To repeat...

DO NOT STOP YOUR MEDS without your doctor's support and guidance. I've had to deal with too many folks who stopped their meds 'cause they felt better... leading to a rapid decline.

Beyond that, I'm not a doctor. Your doctors are the best ones to consult for advice. I suspect that they'd say that any exercise is generally a good thing; I bet they'll steer you more towards yoga or tai chi than something like MMA/kickboxing or kyukushin karate with lots of heavy, hard contact. (Note that there are non-contact approaches -'cuz I doubt you need blows to to the noggin!- to training in many martial arts, and there ARE contact aspects to some forms of tai chi; I simply tried to pick out the extreme ends of the spectrum.) And, be realistic in your expectations. Yoga/martial arts aren't likely to cure a very serious psychological issue -- and psychosis, especially schizophrenia, is about as serious as they come.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am diagnosed with a psychotic disorder (possibly schizophrenia) and I was wondering if there were any healing arts that would aid in this disorder? Yoga? Tai chi? Meditation? Etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Certain Psychotic disorders can be treated my Traditional Chinese Medicine, but it takes a highly trained Practitioner of TCM to successfully treat them which means a trained OMD usually a graduate from a TCM university in China with years of practice in Chinese Hospitals and someone that has specialized in the treatment of Psychotic disorders. And it would take a combination of Acupuncture and Herbal and possibly Qigong. However with that said I do not think that schizophrenia is one that they treat although I am not 100% sure about that. You also would need to find someone willing to treat it and that in the US would be difficult even from a person trained as I previously mentioned. They simply do not have the access both physically and legally to the needed Herbal and necessary treatment facilities and equipment.

Best advice is what has already been said Follow your doctors advice and discuss the pros and cons of alternative treatments but you may also want to discuss this with someone who is trained in TCM as I mentioned but those people are few and far between in the US, if they are here at all, I know of a few that are very well trained in TCM and graduates of TCM Universities in China and that worked in Hospitals there but they did not specialize in the treatment of psychological disorders and likely would not attempt to treat schizophrenia.

EDIT:
Also understand that if you do find someone that will talk to you about this (that is trained as I said) that they might be absolutely clueless as to what schizophrenia is. Not because they do not know of the disorder they simply know it in Chinese not English and they will need to look it up. So if they ask you to spell it that is what they are doing.

 

[tellner]

There are MDs who are also fully certified doctors of TCM and Ayurvedic medicine. If you are interested in pursuing alternative therapies to supplement the Western approach you really need to get one of them to consult with your psychiatrist.

JCA is right about researching your treatment. It's always good to know about the alternatives and become an active participant in your care rather than a passive subject.

 

[Xue Sheng]

There are MDs who are also fully certified doctors of TCM

Be very leery of these for anything TCM. They are not required to have anywhere near the training they should in TCM (in many states) to be very effective with it or have a full understanding of it

 

[tellner]

At least in this state if you want to put "Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine" up there with your MD you need to go through exactly the same training and certification as anyone else who wants to be a DTCM.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I just checked and schizophrenia is treated in China by TCM but it is treated by people who specialize in its treatment in specialty hospitals that are specifically for psychological disorders

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Xue is correct in regards to those who know proper treatment for mental disorders. Here in the states average TCM who graduates does so in about 24 month program. I would imagine someone using Acupunture would use Ghost points or other points to calm the spirit. The thing with most doctors in the west know very little outside their scope of practice.
But interesting is alternative medicine is becoming more recommended by western doctors. It is very important to educate yourself on your disease
and bring up the alternative medicine Example for me I got a bacteria from eating at Subway which caused Heart burn/Acid reflux doctors wanted to give me Nexum(was becoming a popular stomach drug at the time) I looked into what could cause Acid reflux what can relief Acid reflux. I ate Yogurt which has probiotics killing the bacteria Papaya which also has powerful enzymes
and banana a cooling food . I cured my Acid reflux and have been problem free for 6 years with no heart burn or Acid reflux.
The point is Doctors may not know about food being able to cure problems as much as they know pills with a free steak dinner does.
I was talking to a psy doctor friend of mine and the talk came up about Marijuna usuage to help people relax instead of anti anxiety medicines.
He said you do not know what is in the marijuna when you buy it on the street. I told him I agree but if it were legal again and pure the health benefits could be greater than most anti anxiety medicines which affect the liver and can make symptoms worse.

 

[Empty Hands]

I would imagine someone using Acupunture would use Ghost points or other points to calm the spirit.

I would really love it if any chinese medicine devotees could explain to me how sticking needles in peripheral nerves will even out the flow of dopamine in the middle of the brain.

Also, schizophrenia is only an intermittent disorder of an "uncalm" spirit. Most of the time someone with schizophrenia has blunted emotions and thought processes. They feel less, not more. Only during intermittent episodes will the dopamine flash over in the central circuits and cause psychotic episodes.

The thing with most doctors in the west know very little outside their scope of practice.

In the case of schizophrenia, they know enough to attack the root of the problem, dopamine circuits in the brain, instead of "ghost points" in the periphery.

The following link is to a meta-analysis of five studies looking at the use of acupuncture to treat schizophrenia. In the words of the authors "We found insufficient evidence to recommend the use of acupuncture for people with schizophrenia."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Without large, well controlled studies, everyone claiming that this or that does so much good is simply relying on unfounded belief and anecdote.

 

[kaizasosei]

i have heard that certain circles of psychology do not accept the notion of schizophrenia. -

most everyone has problems and fears of some sort. it's just whether or not it becomes known to the outside. after there is some sort of judgement of mental illness, measures like meds and other treatments, the individual becomes more and more at mercy of the external. literally spiraling out of control. so it would depend if the external person that is helping is good or not.
however, i think that a person is fully capable of being happy on their own. not saying there arent good therapists, gurus or spiritual guides out there. but at the end of the day, everyone should be entiteled to a certain degree of dignity and independance.

diagnosis by professionals are quite powerful. often they are spot on. whether or not certain treatments and judgements are correct or not is a different matter. i would say that therapists often reach into the realm of the destructive. and there are also plenty of instances where they are totally off and their diagnosis exaggerated. after all, unlike ailments of the body, technically, anyone can just make up reasons for things or come up with theories, it is hard see their true motives.
in my opinion tho, a therapist should always be someone that is very trustable. someone that really reaches out somehow.

as far as meds go. i'm against them. i think it's ok for someone to take medication when in an extremely difficult situation in life. but then, the goal should be to get off the meds as soon as possible in a controlled way with the assistance of the physician that prescribed them.
i believe this because i have seen how powerful those drugs can be in various situations. the brain can become quite unstable through the medications influence of dopamine synthesis. that can cause all kinds of fears anxieties neurogenic shocks. especially when one stops abruptly without the doctors advice. or if certain drugs or worse experiences persist or medication is not integrated well enough.

usually, on the meds, one can be sure to be somewhat stable because the medication is designed to work that way.

take care and get off the meds eventually.

i think youd be better off yet searching for herbs in some library.

j

 

[kaizasosei]

well, if you act different, your dopamine will also become different. so is it the chicken or the egg? is the change in dopamine changing the experience ,or is the experience balancing the internal chemical situation?
one thing i know for a fact from past experiences. when you take phychopharmaceuticals, they override all your actions and all your nutrition as well as alter your brain chemistry to make you addicted to the altered state that is so dangerous to break off abruptly. - fact

 

[Cruentus]

i have heard that certain circles of psychology do not accept the notion of schizophrenia. -

That is because Schizophrenia tends to be used as a "garbage category;" where if the symptoms don't fit anything else in the DSM, they are inclined to label people as schizophrenic. A problem in psychological diagnosis is that doctors and patients tend to view these as lifetime labels. So if you are a "schizophrenic" then you will always be one in their minds. There leaves no room for any kind of cure or learning to function well with the abnormality. And, if your misdiagnosed (which is common for schizophrenia)? Well, you could find yourself carrying that label regardless of the truth behind it.

The key is, take everything with a grain of salt, but don't do anything on your own either. It would be very dangerous to stop taking meds and researching your own cures, for example. Continue with your doctor; and if you don't like his treatments then find another doctor who you think is a better fit. And try to find someone who is conservative with med perscriptions.

That is the best you can do. Physical activity like martial arts or any of the mentioned activities is always helpful; but it will be a combo of things that will help the patient out, and mind/body exercise is just one of those things...

 

[Empty Hands]

i have heard that certain circles of psychology do not accept the notion of schizophrenia. -

Anyone that does not is an idiot. It is one of the most common serious mental diseases out there, affecting about 1% of the population. It has an identified mechanism in the dopaminergic pathways of the mesolimbic and mesocortical regions of the brain. Anti-dopaminergic drugs have had a proven effect in reducing or eliminating psychotic episodes in patients for over 40 years now.

Disbelieving schizophrenia is like disbelieving asthma.

most everyone has problems and fears of some sort. it's just whether or not it becomes known to the outside. after there is some sort of judgement of mental illness, measures like meds and other treatments, the individual becomes more and more at mercy of the external. literally spiraling out of control.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Serious mental illnesses such as clinical depression or psychosis have little to no cognitive component. You can't think your way into or out of schizophrenia.

unlike ailments of the body, technically, anyone can just make up reasons for things or come up with theories, it is hard see their true motives.

Serious mental illnesses are amenable to the same scientific tools as any other illness, such as an infection or asthma. No one just dreamed up schizophrenia.

Do you understand how the scientific process works in medicine, psychiatric or otherwise?

As far as meds go. i'm against them. i think it's ok for someone to take medication when in an extremely difficult situation in life. but then, the goal should be to get off the meds as soon as possible in a controlled way with the assistance of the physician that prescribed them.

Jesus H. Christ, have you ever known someone on psychiatric meds? Even read about them? There are serious conditions for which the meds offer the only hope of relief, and the condition never goes away. Just like JKS says, such people feel better, go off the meds, and go right back into psychotic episodes. Do you have the slightest idea what treatment was like for schizophrenics, for instance, prior to the invention of anti-psychotics? It involved confinement, restraint, and beatings. Now it involves a somewhat normal life.

Some people have serious conditions which require medication. Belittling them for taking the meds is just as foolish as belittling the choice of a diabetic to take insulin or someone with an infection to take antibiotics.

I think youd be better off yet searching for herbs in some library.

Oh yeah, much better off. If a herb has any effect in your body, it is because it has some level of an effective drug in it. Thus, taking a herb has the same potential complications as taking the synthesized, purified drug - and that's assuming the herb even works.

Anti-psychotics have a documented scientific history going back more than 40 years detailing how they work to curb psychotic episodes. Anyone with a serious psychosis would be a fool to substitute with herbs until the herbs have at least as good a track record.

 

[Empty Hands]

well, if you act different, your dopamine will also become different. so is it the chicken or the egg? is the change in dopamine changing the experience ,or is the experience balancing the internal chemical situation?

No, that just isn't true. No trauma, no experience, no ill thought, no punishment from your mother, no psychosexual fantasies, nothing you can possibly think or feel or experience will cause psychosis. No study has ever linked such experiences with schizophrenia or similar. It is telling however that schizophrenia does have an inherited component.

one thing i know for a fact from past experiences. when you take phychopharmaceuticals, they override all your actions and all your nutrition as well as alter your brain chemistry to make you addicted to the altered state that is so dangerous to break off abruptly. - fact

Well, I wouldn't doubt it now that you proclaim it as fact.

No one claims that psychopharmaceuticals are without side effect. One must always balance risk and reward. Nonetheless there are people with severe enough illnesses that such meds offer the only chance at a normal existence.

Your alarmism is unbalanced.

 

[kaizasosei]

trust me, i know what i am saying. i know i may not have expressed myself clearly enough. hope that it is enough.

about the thing with schizophrenia and astmah being the same is very wrong in my opinion. maybe it is you who doesnt know as much as you think you do.

the question is, do you even know what it is like without meds if you have never taken a differnt approach.

keep in mind i wasn't completely against the meds. i just wanted to point out how dangerous they can be.

 

[kaizasosei]

No, that just isn't true. No trauma, no experience, no ill thought, no punishment from your mother, no psychosexual fantasies, nothing you can possibly think or feel or experience will cause psychosis. No study has ever linked such experiences with schizophrenia or similar. It is telling however that schizophrenia does have an inherited component.

i can't believe what i am reading here

 

[kaizasosei]

i mean i do know that everything is inherited but everything else makes me wonder if that is exactly what You meant. -no experience has effect on people.