headbutting

[grydth]

You make a decent point.....but boxers and NFL players get brain damage as the result of multiple concussions received over their careers, not as the result of a single event.

Multiple repetitive career long brain injuries aren't the same as a one or two lifetime event uses of a headbutt for self-defense.

I would also concede your points. Research is by far not conclusive as yet, and each individual fighter has to decide this on their own.

Sometimes it is possible, given vicious enough hits and prompt medical diagnosis, to determine specific points in an athlete's career where the damage was inflicted. Other times, I concede, this is not the case.

 

[Jimi]

When I trained with Henry Sotelo (Kenpo Guy) he taught us what he called the RAM. It used Headbutts, Knees & Elbows as the typical strikes for inclose clinch fighting. I also have trained a long time in the Burmese Arts, I also learned of their Bull & Boar systems using Stomps, Knees, ELbows & Headbutts. These techniques are usually taught to a practioner depending on their attributes & character. A previous post mentioned a Sifu who was unhappy with just the mention of a Headbutt saying " Like a goat or bull" I say exactly right!!! If you do not like the headbutt, you are not a Bull, Boar or Ram so don't use it. To profess that a headbutt has such little use in self defense, shows that you (You figuratively) may only approve of what you like. Boars, Bulls & Rams (Character wise) do not just run around trying to headbutt everything, but get too close & you may find a well placed headbutt that will change your world. I like headbutts, so I suggest you learn to use it correctly & well before trying to plant one. The Burmese Bando Boxing Bama Lethwei & Bull/Boar systems in Bando also train Headbutt defenses that also work quite well, they do not just crank back & BUTT, they also look to defend headbutts. Look into Bando, Dirty Boxing, or what have you (Hell even the Dirty Dozen movie shows a quite effective helmeted headbutt) so if you do not like or agree with headbutts, no-one is making you use them. BEWARE those who have looked well into the use of headbutts.

 

[Josh Oakley]

The human brain has no padding inside the skull, and there is almost no subcutaneous fat layer between the skin and the skull. In other words, when you drive your skull forward and it abruptly stops, it is very much like being punched in the head with that same amount of force, or being thrown onto the dashboard or steering wheel of a car in an accident. Concussion, permanent brain injury, and death are real and serious threats to the person administering the headbutt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion

I think I would consider it only as a last resort.

I have to disagree. If you're using your head correctly, you should only be striking certain points of the head, and you should be following through. The correct targets give much easier than the thickest part of the head. Follow through also keeps the brain from being rocked by the skull stopping too fast. If you're doing the headbutt right, it shouldn't cause you damage.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I have to disagree. If you're using your head correctly, you should only be striking certain points of the head, and you should be following through. The correct targets give much easier than the thickest part of the head. Follow through also keeps the brain from being rocked by the skull stopping too fast. If you're doing the headbutt right, it shouldn't cause you damage.

I broke a toe on a rib recently. I suspect that it would take a degree more control than I have to successfully engage my skull as a blunt instrument against another blunt instrument. Perhaps you have that skill - I cannot say. I know I do not, and hence, it would be a very poor choice for me to use except in the gravest extreme.

In any case, I use my toe wrong, and I get a broken toe. Use your head wrong, and what do you get? Seems a tad on the risky side to me.

 

[David Weatherly]

Not high on my list of tools to use I'll admit but they are a nasty and effective surprise when used at the right time.

 

[Jimi]

A fight is risky business all around isn't it? You throw a punch wrong & you can break your hand (Or the bones with-in or the wrist) Throw a kick wrong & you can break a toe, your shin or your ankle. Do a hip throw wrong & you can throw out your back or blow out your knees. It is all a dice roll when you boil it right down. When we look at natural body weapons employed by man for a few thousand years for survival, we see common body weapons, & up close a headbutt is a great ally (And has been for a long time). I am not discounting your opinion Bill, I hope you see I am saying that as a last resort, this may very well be where it came from. That (Oh $#*^) moment when the last thing you try (Maybe A Headbutt) CAN help. Some of us embrace the risk of head trauma for the use of the Headbutt if it gives us a fighting chance, much like a boxer embraces the risk of injuring his right hand for his preferred use of it. I understand your concern about impact to the head being serious issue (I am not taking away from that). For those who do train to understand the insights of Headbutting (like even a bare-knuckle punch is risky) they have weighed the risk. To some of us, we do not see that it is more common that the one performing a Headbutt will injure himself rather than an opponent or assailant. Most Headbutt hurt the other guy unless done dreadfully incorrectly. I do agree a Headbutt is not the highest of skill & cultivation, It is quite brutal, And that is exactly why some of us embrace it so. PEACE JIMI

 

[Gordon Nore]

To me, the use of a head butt in self-defense is a matter of opportunity, not necessarily something you can set up for. One can throw a number of punches and strikes in a short time, but I've never heard of a flurry of head butts.

I believe a head butt should be a quick forward thrust with the top of head where my hairline used to be. I've seen people "practise" head butting by tilting their own heads backward. If the bad guy sees it coming, he only has to bow his head and lean in, the head butter will drive his own face into the other guy's skull.

I like the old school term's for head butt: "Liverpool kiss," "Glasgow kiss," etc. My teacher used to say, "Just give him a kiss." It's quick and somewhat subtle and spontaneous. I think if one engages in conflict planning to use a headbutt, it probably won't work.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

To me, the use of a head butt in self-defense is a matter of opportunity, not necessarily something you can set up for. One can throw a number of punches and strikes in a short time, but I've never heard of a flurry of head butts.

I believe a head butt should be a quick forward thrust with the top of head where my hairline used to be. I've seen people "practise" head butting by tilting their own heads backward. If the bad guy sees it coming, he only has to bow his head and lean in, the head butter will drive his own face into the other guy's skull.

I like the old school term's for head butt: "Liverpool kiss," "Glasgow kiss," etc. My teacher used to say, "Just give him a kiss." It's quick and somewhat subtle and spontaneous. I think if one engages in conflict planning to use a headbutt, it probably won't work.

It's too soon to rep you again, but I just had to express my gratitude for the laugh you gave me at the mental image of a "flurry of head butts".

 

[chav buster]

a few technical points with head butting
1, make sure your eye level is lower then your oponents.
2, you should think of your head as a third arm in reserve for when your arms are busy.
3, throw your body weight forward before your head to get maximum power.
4, the best instant to use butts is when your in your oponants guard, get double biceps and start mashing his face in.
5,get a good grip on your oponant( underhooks over hooks lapel ect) to add extra power by pulling him into it and limit his ability to counter evade.
6, a small hop into the but will add alot of power but must be timed right.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I broke a toe on a rib recently. I suspect that it would take a degree more control than I have to successfully engage my skull as a blunt instrument against another blunt instrument. Perhaps you have that skill - I cannot say. I know I do not, and hence, it would be a very poor choice for me to use except in the gravest extreme.

In any case, I use my toe wrong, and I get a broken toe. Use your head wrong, and what do you get? Seems a tad on the risky side to me.

Honestly, it doesn't take much skill at all.

My headbutt rules:

1. For the most part, stick to close range use.
2. Attack for the most part from an angle.
3. Targets: nose, orbitals, ears, bend of the jaw
4. Use your hand to stabilize the other person's head when you can.
5. Always follow up.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Honestly, it doesn't take much skill at all.

Couldn't agree more. If you've spent 20 years on a mountain with a monk mastering the headbutt, well...

I watched a bartender, an old friend actually, escort a quite violent patron out of a bar. My future wife and I were sitting at the window counter as it happened. The guy started swinging, and I leaned over the missus and said, "Ian's gonna give him a kiss."