He messed with the lemon and got the whole meringue

[Fang]

I'm sorry, but you're still giving terrible advice, and here's why

1. "I panicked" or "I was in blind fear" trashes a claim of self defense

No it doesn't, fear is exactly the motivator that you'd want a jury to latch onto.

1. So does "I picked up the knife and stabbed him several times. It was an accident." The police are not stupid. Not Nobel Prize winners, but definitely not stupid. They know their business, and they're persistent when they think they're being messed with.

Uh huh, but my version is still a far cry away from completely butchering them, which 'will' earn you a case, at least with my version you have an odd off chance they will believe you.

1. You're telling people to lie to the investigating officers. That's not just stupid, it's a serious crime. When they figure it out you are screwed.

I'm not telling anyone to lie, I said make it look less articulate even less deliberate. Thats 'not' telling people to lie tellner.

1. "Make it look like" only works if you know how to "make it look like". Watching CSI doesn't cut it. Alter a crime scene? That's a felony or two plus the murder charges you are sure of earning.

If you're capable of completely butchering someone you're capable of making it look less articulate.

1. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable. But alter the crime scene or try amateur theatrics to impress them and it will come back to haunt you big time.

Witnesses send people to prison. You may know infinitely more about knife handling than me tellner but on this one it dioesn't sound as if you even know what you're talking about... I've done time, have known a lot of people who've done time and are doing time. Butchering someone is auto time for anyone I guarantee that and witnesses 'do' matter...

Sorry for the sloppy post I'm still figuring this forum out.

 

[jks9199]

MA-Caver, "Suppose" is not the same thing as "Did". He did act correctly. And honestly, you're holding him to an infinitely higher standard than you would hold anyone who carries tin. A cop can kill you if he thinks you're making a "furtive movement" let alone holding a gun to someone's head. By that standard the manager was well within his rights to cut the robber's head clean off.

And an officer would have been required to justify his actions, and is held responsible for them. Officers are both civilly and criminally liable for their use of force in the United States. In fact, it's not uncommon for an officer to be sued even when both internal reviews and prosecutorial assessments find no wrongdoing.

Unlike the image that you seem to want to portray, few cops are the gun-happy fools just looking for the opportunity to shoot someone. In fact, more than one cop has been injured this year alone because they held off on using lethal force a second longer than they could have justified.

Nor are most cops today the poorly trained buffoons that can't do anything but violate people's rights and try to be the grinding foot of "The Man" that you often impute them to be. Many, if not most, officers today have at least an associate's degree, and most academies meet the majority of the requirements for an associate's degree. Many have at least a bachelor's -- and master's (and even doctorates!) aren't unheard of. A typical academy lasts between 4 and 6 months, including several hundred hours of instruction. Field training is a further 8 to 12 weeks (or more) on average. During that time, the officer is no only learning when he or she may use force, but being constantly assessed in regard to their fitness for the job, their judgement, and their ability to apply their training, including areas as diverse as administrative law and zoology, as well as sociology, psychology, and much more, to rapidly developing situations.

On more than one occasion, I've posted a reasonable cop's view of self defense issues here. IF someone's being attacked -- they have every right, and I'll even agree the duty, to defend themselves. Law enforcement can't be there before every crime happens; we do our best to prevent crime -- but the truth is that our job is the detection of crimes and apprehending those who committed them, not stopping every potential crime. Law enforcement is, by it's very nature within the US, primarily a reactionary organization; we don't stop people for the crimes they might commit, or we'd have to charge every man with rape, and every woman with prostitution. After all, they all have the potential to commit those offenses!

But the fact that law enforcement is reactionary doesn't mean that you have the right or duty to take the law into your own hands, either.

 

[Drac]

I am not anti Cop, I train under a former one and train and train with a few. It's a tough job, made tougher for them by the brass and the politicians.."

FINALLY an intellegent post...For the record I am not a big fan of traffic cams either..Got a speeding ticket last month by one of them..You can clearly see my F.O.P plate, but as I was in a city that has no love for the FOP ( Faternial Order of Police) I got zapped...

 

[jks9199]

I'm sorry, but you're still giving terrible advice, and here's why

1. "I panicked" or "I was in blind fear" trashes a claim of self defense
2. So does "I picked up the knife and stabbed him several times. It was an accident." The police are not stupid. Not Nobel Prize winners, but definitely not stupid. They know their business, and they're persistent when they think they're being messed with.
3. You're telling people to lie to the investigating officers. That's not just stupid, it's a serious crime. When they figure it out you are screwed.
4. "Make it look like" only works if you know how to "make it look like". Watching CSI doesn't cut it. Alter a crime scene? That's a felony or two plus the murder charges you are sure of earning.
5. Witnesses are notoriously unreliable. But alter the crime scene or try amateur theatrics to impress them and it will come back to haunt you big time.

Solid advice.

If you lie -- you're going to be assumed to be guilty.

If you can say what you did, and why you did it, and tell the truth, you have the best chance to be believed as well as to show that you were justified in what you did.

Self defense is an affirmative defense; you're admitting you did something that would ordinarily be a violation of the law -- but you were justified in doing so. You wouldn't have shot the guy if he wasn't shooting at you... Playing games with the truth, altering the crime scene (we can typically tell), will equal guilty behavior; being less than cooperative may be taken as a sign of guilt. Your best option, without providing legal advice!, is to be honest. "I don't want to talk till I've talked to my lawyer" is honest; if you did nothing wrong, it's annoying, and could get you arrest -- but it's honest. And might be the wisest choice thing to say.

 

[Sukerkin]

One of the things that I like about this cluster of fora is that there actual, qualified, individuals who can give their professional viewpoint on quite a variety of things.

It's so much better to hear from a bona fide police officer what 'LEO's' think about a cirumstance than have to try and sift through a barrel-load of 'opinion' from those who, when it comes down to it, really don't know.

Thank you, chaps; your input is always valued :tup:.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I always hear the "cops cant shoot", "cops cant fight" mantra. Typically from the same "types". But in the long run arent those the last ditch skills anyway? Id bet you could have a kick *** dude that could shoot the eye off a fly and beat CroCop in the ring and still be a sucky cop. Cant talk to people, wouldnt notice AliBabba and the 40 thieves crawling out of the local bank at 3 AM, etc. On the other hand being an alert, methodical and educated investigator that could get a confession out of Al Capone wont matter if you are beat to death on a car stop. But in the end, what skills get the job done better?

 

[Drac]

But in the end, what skills get the job done better?

You need a little bit of ALL of the skills you mentioned plus a bit of the 6th sense..

 

[Drac]

It's so much better to hear from a bona fide police officer what 'LEO's' think about a cirumstance than have to try and sift through a barrel-load of 'opinion' from those who, when it comes down to it, really don't know.

Thanks Sukerkin..Unless they( who think they know police work) have done the job, made felony traffic stops, responded to Domestic Violence calls, fight in progress calls, bldg searches etc...etc.. They don't know a thing..They can read books, watch Cops and CSI , Law and Order and The Avengers and they will still be outsiders looking in ...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Unlike the image that you seem to want to portray, few cops are the gun-happy fools just looking for the opportunity to shoot someone. In fact, more than one cop has been injured this year alone because they held off on using lethal force a second longer than they could have justified.

Like this poor officer?

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1126547419

Warning, its not visually graphic but it will break your heart.

 

[jks9199]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I always hear the "cops cant shoot", "cops cant fight" mantra. Typically from the same "types". But in the long run arent those the last ditch skills anyway? Id bet you could have a kick *** dude that could shoot the eye off a fly and beat CroCop in the ring and still be a sucky cop. Cant talk to people, wouldnt notice AliBabba and the 40 thieves crawling out of the local bank at 3 AM, etc. On the other hand being an alert, methodical and educated investigator that could get a confession out of Al Capone wont matter if you are beat to death on a car stop. But in the end, what skills get the job done better?

The perfect cop would be able to shoot the gonads off of a mosquito in flight at 300 yards with a snub nose revolver (without disturbing the wingbeat), beat Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Chuck Norris, all the Gracies, the Batman, and the Predator simultaneously at hand to hand, talk an Eskimo into buying not only a refrigerator, but an air conditioner AND an ice pack in a blizzard, charm a lion into not only laying down with, but changing diapers on a lamb, be compassionate without being crushed by the depravity he comes across in his duties... He'd be an expert in all aspects of forensics, from metallurgy and ballistics to fingerprint and handwriting analysis, and he'd be enough of a lawyer to shame Daniel Webster.

In reality -- cops are made from people. Most of us have to be jacks-of-all-trades, doing the best we can to apply a constantly changing rule book to situations that it was never designed for in the first place. We all share one simple goal; to get home in one piece at the end of the shift. We all make mistakes, and live in constant dread that one mistake will be our last.

On top of the work stuff -- most of us have lives, too! Wives that delight in hiding everything from us while we're at work, dogs that need to be walked even when we're dead tired, lawns that need mowed, leaking toilets at 1 AM and all the rest. Just like everyone else out there...

There's a great piece from the Dragnet radio series; here's one link to it:http://www.badge714.com/dragquot.htm#cop.

So... to finally answer your question, cops need enough fighting/combat skills to stay alive while doing the rest of their job. You wouldn't want a plumber who could only install sinks; it's not enough for a cop only to be a fighter.