Have personal expressions ever interfered with your training?

[Carol]

Details altered heavily to protect the innocent.

Once, I came across one of my MA classmates. He was carrying a bag that looked like it was saying "White Power". I was really bothered by this and found it difficult to interact with him in class...although he didn't seem like the kind of guy that would make such an ignorant statement.

I finally got up the courage to ask him what his bag said. He showed it to me, it said "Donny White's Power Washing Service". I saw that, and he said Donny was his brother-in-law and he's really good with rooftop work. He asked me if I needed my house power washed, I turned 3 shades of purple while I admitted that I misunderstood what the bag said.

So...has anyone found that training partner's off-the-mat expressions has (rightly or wrongly) interfered with their ability to train with that person?

 

[Empty Hands]

Wow, maybe Donny should have re-thought his business name!

The one I see that bothers me are guys with German Iron Cross tatoos. I don't even think most of them know what it is or what it means, or that a number of white supremacists use it as a symbol. Nonetheless, I can't help but think less of them.

 

[Jai]

Same thing Empty said. We get alot of people around here that do things because they are "cool" and really have no idea what the real meaning behind the things are. I find it hard to keep the same level of respect for these types of people that go through life so clueless.

 

[Sukerkin]

Training in a martial art does not automatically make us serene Buddhist paragons . We are still human and are still going to, however subconsciously, react to the actions and words of our fellows.

I've been very lucky in my experience in iai such that everyone I've trained with has been a person I've liked, respected or both. There is always going to be the occaision where this is not going to be true - it's just not happened to me yet. In my Lau Gar years, I met more than my fair share of people I considered to be ... erm ... well ... not people I'd normally choose to associate with.

Those two experiences glued together lead me to believe that either I've been very lucky so far in my sword art compatriots or that the 'barriers to entry' in the armed arts act as a sort of filter so that only those really interested in the art get started in the first place and this acts to flense off some of the 'rough edges' .

 

[thesandman]

I'm afraid that there have been a few instances where a persons personal beliefs or ignorance has effected my ability to effectively train with or teach them.

An example was a boy, maybe 18, he was a 1st degree black belt. Not one of my students. I was attending the class that he trains in and my wife and I were stretching out. My wife is a 3rd degree, I am a 5th degree. Now this 1st degree black belt started talking to us, I honestly don't remember what about. I remember that whatever his point was, he was very very wrong. My wife tried to correct him and after arguing with her he turned to me and said, "Explain it to her, she's a woman so doesn't understand". It was the most sexist thing I had ever seen in any martial arts environment. The audacity was truly stunning. As that he was not my student, I did not come down on him as hard as I otherwise may have, but I did take him asside and informed him that his comment was inappropriate.

The encounter left a bitter taste in both of our mouths and I'm afraid that we are both guilty of never really treating him the same after that.

At least in my school, these problems are pretty self correcting. People who behave inappropriately or are so far seperated by ideals from the class will quickly realize that they are out of place and leave on their own. Only rarely has someone stubbernly stuck to a program surrounded by people who didn't like them.

 

[Guardian]

I guess I've been blessed that I look at the individual not their lifestyle or habits that I might not agree with and if for some reason they did or have habits that I absolutely don't agree with, then I didn't work out with them or instruct them.

I have always decided the best course of action is to get to know the person first before making rash speculation on what marking meant or how they wore it or if they just didn't have a clue to the actual meaning (it looked cool) as mentioned here.

Either way, I haven't met but two that I couldn't or wouldn't work with.

As far as the sexist comments, I agree with that, definately a lesson to be taught there.

 

[newGuy12]

You know, I cannot think of a time that I was put off by another student. For some reason, I have always had good relationships with my fellow students, and for that I am glad. There have been some students that I may not have had any desire to know (or to have any dealings with) had they not been my fellow student. But, once they join the school, and keep coming to practice, and practicing hard, then, okay, they are okay with me, regardless of how they see the world.

Its funny how that has turned out for me, but it feels very righteous, very correct.

We do not have rude students in our school. It is not tolerated!

 

[newGuy12]

If you watch the movie "Best of the Best" (the original one, not any of the sequels!), you will see there is one character in there who is flat out rude! He is on the USA team, and is a bully, and so forth. He is not likable. Now, by the end of the movie, he is changed, you see him develop as a person.

That is how it is sometimes with very strong practice at a good school, with a good Master Instructor! It can change the mind. Not just the body or technique changes, but the personality develops as well, as a side-effect of the way you practice!

To practice VERY HARD, religiously, and to not stop! That develops the character of the student! I have seen it happen!

 

[wade]

I have never had a problem because I really don't give a crap about someones personal philosophy on life. At one time though I did have a "white" power type guy in my school, complete with all required tattoos. At the time I also had a 4th Dan male who was very into how black he was. To say the least there was a tad of friction at first. I, though, tend to look at my students the same way the military does. They are not white, black, green or purple, they are my students. They will either get along or they will leave. This young man ended up staying with me for 4 years, long enough to get his first Dan before a job moved him to another state. A large part of the time his instructors were either female, black, or other. He adapted, they adapted. I'm not saying it was smooth, but it did happen. He learned, they learned. I hope to think they were all better for it afterward.

 

[Steel Tiger]

My teacher's school is on a university campus and, as a result, he often gets people from different cultural backgrounds. I can remember a Chinese student who would not work with women. That didn't go over too well and he didn't last very long. And there was a young Hindu chap, very pleasant and personable, but with the strangest macho streak you have ever seen. He made it very difficult to work with him as he would not submit when wrestling and tried very hard not to acknowledge any pain from blows. It meant that the rest of us were afraid of hurting him simply because we could not gauge how we were affecting him when training.

 

[CuongNhuka]

If I saw that, I'd have walked over, and looked at his bag while he is still near, and call him on it if says what you thought it said. And by call him on it, I mean beat the tar out of the kid next time we spar (-evil laugh-)

 

[bluemtn]

Well, I don't exactly know how fitting this is...

There's a lady in my TKD class that just doesn't smile, say hi, or whatever. I know she talks, but it's just strange. My problem with that is, while I'm not exactly the most talkative person around, I try to make an attempt at a conversation. If and when the other person doesn't seem to try to "open up", I get uncomfortable around them. This has affected my training experience with her, wondering if she was just overly competitive or whatever. She's a green belt, and since I'm quite a bit more higher in rank than her, I'm pretty much expected to help her (well, anyone that isn't black belt), which would include pointers or encouragement where needed (i.e. sparring).

It seems like now, though, she's finally starting to lighten up some, but for the longest time she wasn't showing any sign of relaxing.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Back in 2004 there was that splash of ballot measures to make same-sex marriages illegal. There was a guy in the MMA class I was taking at the time. We rolled, had fun. Then I saw he had one of those "Marriage = Man + Woman" bumper stickers.

Next class, I caught myself serving him an extra helping of punishment when we worked together. I eased off when I realized, but wow --- I was surprised and embarrassed by my response.

 

[IcemanSK]

I've run into the occassional racist, masaganistic (sp?), & homophobic remarks from seniors. When that's happened, I go find someone else to speak with. I'm glad it's only been at tournaments when I sit at a table for judging.

 

[Drac]

An example was a boy, maybe 18, he was a 1st degree black belt. Not one of my students. I was attending the class that he trains in and my wife and I were stretching out. My wife is a 3rd degree, I am a 5th degree. Now this 1st degree black belt started talking to us, I honestly don't remember what about. I remember that whatever his point was, he was very very wrong. .

OFF TOPIC POST: An 18 year old First Dan arguing with a 3rd and a 5th Dan??? I have had some serious words with him/her..Even stooping to the "pulling rank on him" END POST..

 

[Mark Lynn]

At first I couldn't really remember anyone that I had a problem with over the years to work out with. Well not because of a personal expression, a saying on a workout bag, or a bumper sticker or anything.

Mostly where I had problems with people have been other students of other classes or other systems, and their attitudes toward me or their training partners would impact how I treated them.

As an example
1) During the 80's while studying TKD, Wado ryu, I was also interested in the Filipino martial arts and would attend seminars by Guro Inosanto. which led me to attend seminars with Larry Hartsell, Master Chi etc. etc. Well being a TKD sylist in JKD and related seminars I was treated (at first) like pond scum. Especially by the JKD students, until they worked with me for a while. Then styles were forgotten.

2) As an instructor I've had to fill in for other instructors and had students in class who would in a sense challange me or disrepect themselves and their instructor by doing things half assed and then almost daring me on what I was going to do about it.

To me these types of things have far greater impact on how I treat the individual than a tattoo, bumper sticker or a saying on a bag. As far as I'm concerned they paided their money to train like I have, they are my brother or sister in the martial arts and they can help me be better or hopefully I can help them. I don't care if they are racist or they think women or men are superiour untill they cause a problem in the class by not treating someone as an equal in the school, or by not showing someone the proper respect. Until that happens it's not a problem.

Mark

 

[Drac]

Mostly where I had problems with people have been other students of other classes or other systems, and their attitudes toward me or their training partners would impact how I treated them.

As an example
1) During the 80's while studying TKD, Wado ryu, I was also interested in the Filipino martial arts and would attend seminars by Guro Inosanto. which led me to attend seminars with Larry Hartsell, Master Chi etc. etc. Well being a TKD sylist in JKD and related seminars I was treated (at first) like pond scum. Especially by the JKD students, until they worked with me for a while. Then styles were forgotten.

2) As an instructor I've had to fill in for other instructors and had students in class who would in a sense challange me or disrepect themselves and their instructor by doing things half assed and then almost daring me on what I was going to do about it.

It's a shame that this kind of behavior still occures

To me these types of things have far greater impact on how I treat the individual than a tattoo, bumper sticker or a saying on a bag. As far as I'm concerned they paided their money to train like I have, they are my brother or sister in the martial arts and they can help me be better or hopefully I can help them. I don't care if they are racist or they think women or men are superiour untill they cause a problem in the class by not treating someone as an equal in the school, or by not showing someone the proper respect. Until that happens it's not a problem.

I agree 100%...

 

[meth18au]

Me too...